Jordan 0:00

because we're both so exhausted and we have so much going on and we have so little time for each other and so much coming up, it just seems to like, Be so much harder to regulate our nervous systems in the moment. And we're going there. Okay, sweet. Oh, what's that noise? Is that me? That was you. I think it was your breathing.

Lindsay 0:25

It's like, you're not breathing out of your nose. Okay,

Jordan 0:28

cool. I won't do that. Yeah. Hello. Hi. How's it going? Good. Good. Welcome back. Welcome, welcome back. Welcome back to our little podcast. Yeah. We have kids. So fun. That's what you're listening to right now. Our launch is going pretty well. It is. You know what? I haven't checked that, uh, checked to see specifically how well it's going in like a week. Lots of

Lindsay 0:54

great feedback from family and friends. Yeah. Thank you everybody. It's really fun to see. See where like people are listening in from in the country, all the world all over the place. Yeah. And I can't believe it. It's really cool 'cause everyone's getting like a little start of it. There's no ads or like breaks or anything in our show, so it's kind of like a nice little sweet spot. Yeah. We'll get, I mean hope maybe. We'll hopefully we'll get the ads, but also enjoy your time without the ads because it's gonna be nice if you're listening in like two years.

Jordan 1:23

Maybe you just listens to an ad Yeah, we sure don't have any right now, so, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you're welcome. Yeah. Thank you. Actually. Thank you. Thank you all for the support. It means a lot to us. I've been getting some cool feedback. Lots of people have been really into the adrenal cocktail. That was like episode one

Lindsay 1:40

or two. Yeah. The only feedback I'm getting from that one is how are you traveling with that? So people aren't understanding how I'm traveling like, or excuse me when I travel, like how I'm doing it when I travel, just bringing emergency. I bring enough emergency packets for the day. Yeah. I toss them in my nice big Ziploc bag and I do travel with my Celtic sea salt. I noticed that last time I was talking about it and I was saying Celtic. Oh really? Celtic or Celtic. I'm fairly certain it's Celtic. I'm pretty sure it's Celtic too. I do travel with that in my carry on and I just leave it up like on the top of everything because TSA does have to check it. They've checked it every single time I've traveled. Hmm. So. And then you just

Jordan 2:26

buy coconut water when you're out. Yeah. Cause that would suck. Yeah.

Lindsay 2:29

Yep.

Jordan 2:30

Yeah. Cool. Um, yeah. And I, I was actually listening to, I made myself one the other morning, just like randomly because I had the stuff for it and I was feeling wiped out. Oh boy. So wiped out. I've been feeling.

Lindsay 2:43

So how many weeks are you,

Jordan 2:44

I am, I'll be 31 weeks tomorrow, girl. Yep. You're in it. I, yeah, it's like home stretch, but I'm sure all of you who've been pregnant out there are like, yeah, that last 10 weeks is like, it doesn't feel like the home stretch feels like your whole pregnancy is just happening in like slow motion. That last bit. Yeah. So, yeah, that's where I'm at right now. So I. I hadn't really made one at home. I'm a little bit of a slacker, but I made one. And then I turned on this podcast. I was listening to, it was Liz Moody podcast, um, with an endocrinologist as a guest,

Lindsay 3:22

endocrinologist. Oh my gosh. I kind of, I was thinking about you the whole time. I think I feel like that could have been my calling. Like if I was, if I didn't become a dietitian. And I really wanted to, but I also didn't, I was also stubborn when I was younger. I didn't want to take organic chemistry. How stupid is that? I didn't want to take that class either.

Jordan 3:41

I heard

Lindsay 3:42

so many horror stories. I wanted to be so like a CRNA, then a dietitian. And I was like, I don't want to take any of this organic chemistry. And I was just 19 years old and refused. And like, I was like, I look back at that. I'm like, why didn't you just like, Just try. You could have tried. But anyways, endocrinologist would have been cool.

Jordan 4:03

Yeah. It was a great episode. Check it out everyone. Like I said, Liz Moody podcast, but I turned it on like literally, I was like halfway through the episode and then randomly they started talking about the adrenal cocktail and I was like, Oh my God, this is so weird. I literally just made that. That's crazy. so strange coincidence. But then as I was listening. The endocrinologist had a little tip. She actually said that she's all for the adrenal cocktail, which is awesome. Lindsay said all the right things. Uh, yeah. So listen to that episode if you haven't already to get all the info. But one other tip that the endocrinologist had was to add cream of tartar to it, which I was like, that was interesting

Lindsay 4:42

too.

Jordan 4:42

Yeah. So if you are trying the adrenal cocktail along with us, throw in some cream of tartar. She didn't say like a pinch. I guess. I don't know. She, she didn't, I would imagine like a pinch. Not too much. Yeah. But I guess it adds potassium. So another really good mineral for your body. Really cool. Yeah. So another little update I had for anyone interested that I died, this, this cracked me up so much. I don't know if you guys remember listening, if you did to the toddler bed episode where I was giving tips for keeping your kid in their bed while I was struggling. To keep my kid in her bed. And like literally the day after we recorded that episode, I was like, I'll try the baby monitor trick that I mentioned, which is literally like you watch your kid on the monitor, you know, a monitor you can like speak into. And if they get up, you just say, stay in bed or like say no, say no really firmly was I think like the official tip. But what I said was I saw her like starting to sip and I was like, Lay down, please. And then she just laid back down and it literally worked. Yeah.

Lindsay 5:47

You were like, yeah, cause in the episode you're like, that's kind of weird. I'm not going to like pull that trick. Yeah, like there's

Jordan 5:52

no way she's going to actually just like listen to me on the bench. And here you did it. What made you think to do it? You were just like. The fact that I had given that as advice. I don't know. Maybe you had stuff to do

Lindsay 6:01

and you were

Jordan 6:01

like. Yeah, I was like sitting, doing work on my computer and didn't want to get up and, you Funny. And yeah, wrestle her. It worked that day. It's so funny. The next day, I think I did it three times and she's never gotten back out of bed.

Lindsay 6:17

I can't believe that. It's insane. So stupid. I'm going to put that now in my pocket. Yeah, you need it. I don't know. Just to try. Yeah. We're going to try on the potty training thing for fall. She's wanting to sit on the potty and all the things. So she, so we're going to do that first and just see. So we also don't want a lot of changes all at once because I also mentioned in that episode that I was battling insomnia. It was one of the parts of the episode we were just shooting the shit and you were talking about what's going on with you. And I'm like, I'm not sleeping good. So I have insomnia. When I'm pregnant, Ding, ding. Guess what? Guess what? So I, I am announcing that I'm pregnant here on the podcast. I am well into my second trimester. Jordan and I are just 15 weeks apart again, which is basically the same gap we had the first time. The first time our gap was the same. This time the gap is meant to be in the same, and it's just so like. Amazing and thrilling and just awesome. So I hadn't, I haven't saw me a hardcore you guys, and I am not joining the Unisom train. Oh, are you not?

Jordan 7:36

Because you said maybe even in that episode, I don't remember if you said it in the episode or not, but that you were considering

Lindsay 7:41

Unisom. Yeah. So I consider, so everyone's thrown it my way. Right. Friends, friends that work in health care, family, doctor, I think you may have as well. I don't know what it is. I mean, I didn't before you brought it up, so I don't think I did,

Jordan 7:58

but I think I told

Lindsay 8:00

you this. Yeah. You were like, try smoking weed. And I was like, well, I haven't like done that, like went pregnant. So I'm right. Obviously. So just like you, just like you, I don't want to try anything new when I'm pregnant. I had a miscarriage last fall and I'm like. terrified to try anything like new that I haven't done before pregnancy or when I was trying. It's scary even if you haven't. Yeah. So I'm just like, so anyways, I'm just like keeping things like really like chill. But the, but the reason I'm not jumping the unisom train is because I have insomnia right now for a full blown reason. I am pregnant. Yeah. That's a full blown reason, I think. Yes, I don't have insomnia necessarily. When I'm not pregnant, I am a light sleeper, but then I'm even more of a light sleeper when I have children, because my mother instincts are, you know, chiming in throughout the night, keeping me up. But, yeah, so I'm pregnant. Yeah, congratulations! Yeah, thank you. I mean, I knew, obviously. Yes, you've known for a long time. But I've I've been on here and we've been doing all these episodes talking about, you know, how Jordan's been uncomfortable, like in the heat and like just sitting and like doing all the things and I am right there with her. Yeah. I like, but it's been so hard to like not say anything, tie my tongue, um, on this situation because, um, yeah, it's just like right there. It's happening. So, I'm feeling so much better. I had a terrible first trimester, very like nauseous, way more nauseous. I don't know. I think I'm more nauseous than I was with my daughter. Um, but I'm in my firstborn. Um, so I don't know. We'll see. But everything seems to be like same insomnia, food aversions food cravings were the exact same that I had with my first.

Jordan 9:49

Yeah. So I don't remember what your food cravings, chicken Caesar salad,

Lindsay 9:53

remember?

Jordan 9:54

I could not get

Lindsay 9:55

enough of chicken Caesar salad. I couldn't get enough of the target chicken Caesar wrap that when I remember that's so funny and like chicken in general. So like, raising canes, chicken strips, like, Oh my God, I can't, I could not get enough chicken. I'm not, it's not something I normally eat. My white meat is fish and duck and is duck considered white meat is duck, rabbit. And I don't know about that PHE and grouse considered. Wow. Or, or white meat. I have no clue. I didn't, those things

Jordan 10:25

vary infrequently. Yeah. I actually don't care for duck. I don't either. You don't. I thought you did. Okay.

Lindsay 10:32

I like, I. I liked it at the fine dining restaurant that we used to work at because they sous vide it right and they did it all right. But at home, mmm, I leave that. I do like duck poppers. My husband makes duck poppers with like jalapenos and cream cheese and bacon wraps. That I like. But like he does make, we have like duck burger and we have duck breast and stuff. I don't care for it at home at all. Yeah, interesting. Um, but grouse is so yummy. I just don't know if it's considered white meat. I haven't ever had, I don't think I've ever had grouse. Oh, you'd love it. Yeah. Maybe if he can get some grouse this fall, we can get you some. Cool. Anyways, haha, I'm pregnant. Hello, Lindsay's

Jordan 11:12

pregnant too. We're a couple of pregnant girls. So if we don't make a lot of sense, or if we sound tired, Yeah, or if our sentences run on a little too long, Sorry about it.

Lindsay 11:23

Yeah, it's just how it's gonna be right now. I did come across a post last night on scrolling and I'm gonna send it to you because it's kind of a post that's going around about becoming a mom of two, you know, a head. It talks about you're going to get thrown in the deepest level of postpartum again. Like you did. I was like, damn

Jordan 11:48

nerds. I know. I feel that coming. I feel that hard because I have been so exhausted. Like, I was really tired with my first kid. But I had the ability to like take a nap anytime. Yeah. You know, and I had the ability to like, just take my time thinking about how I was going to prepare. Oh yeah. Just, you know, like make myself food, all those things that you take for granted as a Child free person that are suddenly so much harder to make the mental space for let alone the time space and physical space for in life with a kid with a toddler.

Lindsay 12:24

It's madness.

Jordan 12:26

So this is a nice segue into what my topic is for today. My main topic. Um, My exhaustion is the segue. I've been

Lindsay 12:35

told, and I've been experiencing, and you obviously have been experiencing, but being pregnant and raising a toddler is by far way more exhausting. than anything in the world. I literally just saw a post yesterday that like, it, that we are pushing our endurance limits close to an Olympic athlete.

Jordan 12:55

I honestly, dude, I feel that. I, yeah. At the end of the day, you're like, Oh, especially if I've worked that day, I worked three shifts in a row this year. It's like weekend ish. And I, I was honestly like not totally sure if I was gonna make it. Go back to work. I'm like, oh my god, I just couldn't, yeah, so, and the nice thing about when I get tired is I turn into a real bitch. Well, don't we all? I ball my head off. Yeah, I do that too. But I just, first I get kind of mean, which isn't great. Well,

Lindsay 13:29

here's the thing, it's like when we were talking about short communication with your spouse. Huh. There's no way you can like practice not doing that, like, or withholding from being that short communicator. Yeah. When you're in this. It's so hard. Yeah,

Jordan 13:44

everything's so hard. You just feel like you don't have time for anything and you're overstimulated to your gills and yeah, all I want to do is just like lay down in a dark corner. Space, but instead I'm like cooking lunch or you know, something. So anyway, I turn into, um, a real fun person to be around. And as a result, of course, it means I've been arguing with my partner more than I would like to. And so today I would like to talk about what happens when you argue with your partner. Yes. And especially what happens when you argue with your partner in front of your kid. We try really hard to keep our arguments short. I mean, civil, first of all, of course

Lindsay 14:28

we try time for some, there's blowouts though, or like blow ups.

Jordan 14:34

Yeah. Cause you're like, when, especially when you're pregnant, your hormones are going crazy. You're super tired. You're just, like I said, you're a wreck.

Lindsay 14:40

You

Jordan 14:40

almost have

Lindsay 14:41

no tolerance for anything

Jordan 14:42

out of your window of tolerance. Yes. Which we'll talk about. Yes, exactly. So, yeah, a couple of times this week, like this past month, actually, me and my husband have been kind of, we've just been arguing about really dumb things. Like it's nothing substantial. It's nothing we shouldn't be able to work out like straight away, but because we're both so exhausted and we have so much going on and we have so little time for each other and so much coming up, it just seems to like, Be so much harder to regulate our nervous systems in the moment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we have done like an okay job at not arguing in front of our kid, but there were, there was like one specific day when we got into a pretty gnarly argument. In front of her and I, I personally, like he was kind of keeping his shit together, but I could not keep my shit together and I kind of just lost it. Mm-Hmm. And she ended up crying and I like the moment she started crying. I just like the, I felt like I got smashed by a train. Yeah. I was like, oh my God. Yeah. I've never felt that feeling before. I was like. Made, like, oh, it was so yucky, I

Lindsay 15:47

hated it

Jordan 15:47

so much.

Lindsay 15:48

Yeah, you're, it's, it's gonna happen, like I, that part hasn't happened to me yet, but it's there. My husband and I have not fought more in our lives since postpartum, sorry, since the moment I brought her back home from the hospital. And um, Um, we go to couples therapy and she like validates and she's like, these are the toughest years for a couple to manage and get through like, okay. So she's constantly reminding us to hear. Yeah. I mean, it is because she talks with couples all day long she has a spouse and a child and a young toddler as well. And she's like, I'm, I'm there with you. I understand what you guys are going through. Yeah. I'm sorry that she cried. Oh, that's, it was

Jordan 16:36

so,

Lindsay 16:36

it

Jordan 16:36

was so awful, dude. I can't like, yeah, I never want, I like looked at her and I was like, I'm never going to do that again. And I probably will. Cause I'm not perfect, but like in that moment I was like, okay, this is something I need to look into. I need to make sure that I have all the information that I need to give her the best experience that I can give her. Because Things that I had heard before I like looked into it a little bit are that it is actually important for your kid to see you and your partner arguing a conflict and especially important to see them, to see you resolve. Yes. Right. So if you haven't heard that, that's like the basic one on one stuff is like there will be conflict. So do you and Andrew already have, like, before you went to therapy, did you have, like, an established, like, argument routine? We, no,

Lindsay 17:23

we were, well, okay, before we had a baby, kind of. Sure. Like, when we would come together at the end of the day, or, or, and whatnot, because we were both working jobs separately from home and whatever, then when we had her and brought her home. Um, there were needs that were unmet on his end, needs that were unmet on my end in the middle of the day, all day throughout the night. So arguments were happening whenever so we're like, we're having a hard time figuring out how to transition into a family, how to transition into a couple, like as parents, how to meet each other's needs because now they're completely fricking different than they ever were. And, I am somebody that was always independent and didn't really share my feelings a lot from my upbringing and now all of a sudden I need to learn how to do that. So we went to couples therapy and we went to a family transitional therapist, couples therapist, which was incredible. And now they're structured in a sense where She's down for a nap time on the weekends, which I don't necessarily like arguing over the weekend because that's our time as a family. Or they're at the evening and I hate arguing in the evenings before bed. Um, so unfortunately I just have to like, have bed time. Those are our times. Yeah. So now we just have certain times. Yes. Like we were at the park yesterday in the morning. We had an argument going on and I was, I had the dog on the leash. He was helping her up the slide. I'm like, I'm going to take our dog for a walk. So I removed myself from continuing the argument being done in front of her. And I gave myself time to think. I'm sure he had time to think as well, but I went away for a half hour and walked her along the river.

Jordan 19:00

Yeah. So you have you, would you say you've mostly been able to avoid fighting in front of her or in front of her? Yeah. We're like, even

Lindsay 19:07

before therapy. No. Okay. Therapy has helped with that. Okay. Yes. Yeah. Cool. But, but, uh, but we also make it a huge point to mend in front of her. Yeah. And.

Jordan 19:19

Yeah. Cause that is the thing. Like I said, that a lot of people, a lot of people do focus on is because arguments are somewhat inevitable and emotional reactions are definitely inevitable. That the most important thing you can do is come back and show them how to mend. Yes. Yes. So. Yeah, I'll kind of get into this and we'll, we'll touch base back with the mending thing =in just a minute. so I did some, you know, some like pretty basic research about this. Obviously everyone's pretty familiar with the idea that fighting in front of your kids is going to cause issues and can be detrimental so kids who just like some basic little. Fun facts here. Yeah. Not that fun. Yeah. Kids who are exposed to more parental fighting, they're more likely to suffer from depression and anxiety, they have more sleep issues, they can have more trouble focusing, they tend to perform less well in school.

Lindsay 20:10

And that is all of me. Yeah, because I didn't watch my parents mend. Mm hmm. They just fought the whole time. Yeah, and I never saw them mend So that was always I was always questioning everything. So everything you're listening. Were you the

Jordan 20:23

kind of kid who like would blame yourself? Absolutely. Oh really

Lindsay 20:26

interesting cuz I'm like well if they're not mending because of them too. It's obviously like Me doing something. Yeah.

Jordan 20:33

I read that kids kind

Lindsay 20:34

of have a tendency to do

Jordan 20:35

that. I didn't have that. I didn't have that experience. I definitely experienced my parents arguing a whole bunch and I experienced, yeah, feelings of anxiousness and sleep issues. Yeah. And like the year my parents separated, I definitely didn't perform well. And so I didn't pass fifth grade technically, like I did cause I'd like, they let me go on because I was definitely capable. But

Lindsay 20:57

yeah, everything you're listing is accurate, like

Jordan 21:00

fully accurate. And then of course they will struggle most likely with their own ability to manage conflict and handle emotional experiences in any kinds of relationships they have as they get older. That's all stuff we kind of like have an awareness of, right? I'm not like bringing any new information to the table there, but something that I did find really interesting was that. Kids as little as infants like tiny tiny infants experience a rise in blood pressure when in the presence of arguing adults Which is wild and even baby's brains when they're sleeping reacts to angry times In people's voices Wow

Lindsay 21:37

like they're woken up from it and not

Jordan 21:39

necessarily even woken up But that their brains like that there was a research done at the University of Oregon. I believe I'll link to the research in the show notes, but basically, yeah, it was saying that suggesting that babies, even when they're sleeping, even when they're infants are still negatively impacted potentially by arguing, which is kind of wild. It does make sense, but I, like, I remember when my kid was tiny thinking like, you know, when she was an infant thinking to myself, Oh, we had an argument. This is the kind of thing we're going to need to watch out for as she gets older and understands. Right. Cause you're like, she won't remember it now, but, and doesn't really know what's going on. Like I do get, like, I do believe that the energy and the vibe that you're feeling your kid picks up on for sure, but it's hard to see it like in writing. Yeah. You know what I mean? So yeah, I thought that was really interesting and kind of crazy. Like there's really no good age to argue in front of your kid. Yeah. So that's a little fun, a little bit of fun to make you feel really good about the argument you had last with your partner. So whether or not it can be productive is something that was kind of the driving question that I had because I had heard like it is good to have conflict with your partner. It helps your kid to manage their expectations of relationships in the real world and to manage their own emotions when they do come up and not to feel like shame about them. And to me that makes a lot of sense. As long as like we've said a couple of times now the mending process happens in front of them

Lindsay 23:04

Yeah, and you also show respect during the argument, too.

Jordan 23:07

That's definitely a big part of it So I was looking at a little interview done with a man named John Gottman. Oh, yeah Yeah, I mean most people have done probably marriage counseling have he's a very very prolific marriage therapist and has done tons of research. I think he's at the university of Washington, if I'm not mistaken, but he's like the elite researcher in marriage, uh, success and divorce. And he says, and this isn't going to bring anyone any comfort. He says you should just absolutely never, ever argue in front of your kid period. Yeah. So that was, that's probably why we've,

Lindsay 23:50

that's probably why I'm noticing. So our therapist, she's Big on a lot of his tools that's probably why some of our arguments have changed more Like during her sleep time or during is

Jordan 24:01

that that's something she's had to focus on is just

Lindsay 24:03

like taking time. Yeah. Setting time aside for talking about all these issues that become arguments. Yeah. So, and, and that's like, obviously something we need to schedule into our calendar and we do, and it's not something you want. And then all of a sudden, well, then all of a sudden we're finding ourselves like needing to schedule them more often. Like specific discussions don't need to happen once a month. They need to happen maybe once a week. Dang.

Jordan 24:26

Yeah. But it does need to happen and it is important. Yeah, so basically he says, Obviously, you're going to argue, but it should always happen outside of the acoustic range of your kid so that they're protected from ever hearing the argument. Um, he does say that it could, it could be a good idea once your kids are teenagers.

Lindsay 24:43

What age do you like teach them how to argue? So like when they're like, basically

Jordan 24:48

when they're teenagers, they'll have like the frontal lobe. I'm assuming frontal lobe capacity, um, cause that's your reasoning and stuff. helps you regulate emotions and everything, but that's like when they're old enough that you can, he says you can like role play certain arguments that you've had. But like having already resolved them so that the big Dysregulated nervous system feelings aren't coming up for you when you're role playing them got it Which I was like, um, that's like something to think about way down the line. Yeah Whoa, that'd be so true. It's so hard

Lindsay 25:20

Especially right now when you and I are pregnant and our emotions are flaring up Just a big ol river. Just a

Jordan 25:27

flowing river. It's hard work. It's crazy, dude. It's so crazy. I did also find on the Gottman Institute website, and this was an article not written by John Gottman himself, but just somebody on his Institute team, an article that seems to sort of disagree with what he says, at least a little bit. Um, it suggests that it could be beneficial to argue To argue in front of your kids, but with a big, like, however, like, you know, yeah, there's a big caveat. Put

Lindsay 25:54

up, make sure, like, imagine a spotlight in the room on both of you because you're like on stage for your child. Yeah, totally. And that's

Jordan 26:01

kind of, you kind of like make that the driving purpose. So it gives guidelines about exactly how to do it and how not to do it. The big, how not to do it. So we'll just get that out of the way. They're fairly obvious, but worth mentioning. Never use verbal aggression, so no name calling, no insulting your partner, no threatening your partner, and definitely never talk about, like, leaving each other in front of your kid, because that can be terrifying. Never use physical aggression and that could be obviously like, you know, hitting your partner, but can be something like I, one time slamming a cup. Totally. Like there was one time when I was pregnant with my first kid, she, luckily that's as around as she was. I even feel guilty arguing. As a pregnant person, just, yeah, still feels uncomfy, but I was, uh, very dysregulated this morning and I was so, I don't remember what about something stupid probably, but I like smashed a plate on the floor and that's like the most dramatic thing I think I've ever done in my life, but that would be physical aggression too, I would argue, like throwing things or hitting a wall or the table. So, none of that. never stonewall or use the silent treatment in front of your kids. You might think that that, I personally wouldn't have really thought of that one as being something that's super detrimental to their well being because it's kind of like passive in a way. Yeah, yeah. But, uh, when you start to think about it, it does make sense. Then they pick up on that. Like you're really not showing them how to communicate or Right, right. connect with somebody who you're struggling with. Mm hmm. So

Lindsay 27:31

that's really important. We call timeouts. to help with the stonewalling. Interesting. Um, so we just call timeouts and then whoever decides to to call the timeout has to come back. Oh cool. And set the time. Oh that's a good idea. They set the time. So like I'm not gonna stonewall but I need 10 minutes or I need 30 minutes. That's a really good idea. So we set 30 minute timer but that person that set the time. Is the one who has to come back. Yes. I actually love

Jordan 27:58

that. I do. That would help me and my partner a lot. Yeah. I'm going to use that. Did you, did you pick that up in therapy or? Yeah, that's a good one. Oh, I'm totally. Yeah. Okay. So then we can move forward. The house, keep yourself calm. First focus on your breathing if you need to, and then make it a point of really listening to your partner. Like almost make it your priority. Listen before you like, listen to her. Yeah, totally. Listen to everything. to collaborate and problem solve, they say this is really cool to do in front of your kid, but you have to do so in a calm and present way. And that's like, doesn't even feel like an argument to me. So I think that's kind of where this is coming from. Like you can have these like quote unquote arguments with your partner, but you are basically you're not fighting in any sense of the word. You're really just Of recognizing that there's something you don't agree about and, like, very calmly figuring out a way to,, settle the disagreement. They say be careful with the words you use. Use I statements like I think, I feel, which can help you focus on your experience rather than pushing blame. It's like less threatening and aggressive toward your partner. And then ultimately, like, basically, the long and the short of it is keep your cool physiologically. Like, keep your nervous system regulated, and the moment that you can't do that anymore, it basically turns into a conversation that just full stop should not be had in front of your kid. Yes. So that was pretty much my takeaway. It's like, it's basically okay to have an argument in front of your kid, but like you can't get worked up emotionally in a fighting context in front of your kid with your partner, which, uh, something I'm just going to have to work on. Dude, it's hard

Lindsay 29:39

when you're not, when you're not taught the tools it's a whole thing as an adult to figure out. You've never been pregnant before and all these emotions have never happened to you before. So this is all brand new. Mm hmm. I look back at our day we got married and I'm like, we had no idea what was coming. We were like making these vows, you know, obvious for obviously all the trouble all of the days ahead. But we really didn't understand. of like those, you know, vows and all like what was really going to be hard ahead. Yeah. And I look back at that, I'm like, man, did we, we didn't know. Yeah. I felt

Jordan 30:17

that way when me and my partner were separated on different, like in different countries. That was when I felt like that felt harder to me than parenting so far has. Wow. That's impressive. Well, yeah. I mean. Those are hard days. Yeah. It's just, you can just, it's one of those things. You get tossed into the deep end and you just have to do what you've got to do.

Lindsay 30:38

Yeah.

Jordan 30:39

But yeah, it's just important to come in toward each other and recognize that you're a team and you're working together rather than turn away from each other. And that's another big thing that I've heard John Gottman say.

Lindsay 30:48

Yeah. He's big on like, it is not. Me versus you. Yeah, you have to remember you're a team. Yeah, we practice a lot of term like we, us, together, like those words have to come up in our arguments.

Jordan 31:02

Yeah, that's, I mean, it's smart. A couple little things I found interesting, just to move us along here, there was a Notre Dame university psychologist named Mark Cummings, who's done a ton of research on arguing in front of kids. And one of the things he found that was really interesting to me. is that before age 11, so this goes on with like the mending thing. Before age 11, kids seem to need to see parents physically making up. So it's actually not, yeah, it's not enough to like just come to, it's not enough to like have the vibe checked and bring kids in. Bring yourselves back to like kind words to each other. He says that the more important thing for you to do is yeah. Tons of hugs, lots of physical affection at kisses. Like he says that that shows your child until they're 11 or older. That's the thing that your child's going to see and understand as you've now solved the issue, which I thought was super interesting. Cause me and my husband don't really do it. That's too much when we mend our arguments in front of our kid. Mm hmm. So, yeah, that's something that I found useful and I will definitely take away. And there was another pretty big study that found it didn't really matter whether the argument was even resolved. So the mending thing kind of like gets kicked away a little bit here. But the thing that mattered was how often and how intensely parents argued. That was the biggest factor in negative outcomes. Yeah. If

Lindsay 32:21

they don't mend. I would imagine the arguments are going to escalate. Like, yeah, I mean, I guess

Jordan 32:26

that's true. So there will be still a correlation between mending the argument generally. Yeah. But it didn't matter whether they like mended it the kid or not necessarily. It was just like, how much, how often are you arguing and how intense is the argument getting? Which I feel a little better about. Cause even though we're in like a little bit of a phase of arguing a lot more than we're used to, it's, it's not, it's for the most part, it's not too intense and doesn't last very long. Yeah. So that's kind of, you know, as much as I will get into for like the research part of this, and I have said a few actionable things and given a little bit of advice so far, but I have kind of like four main actionable points to make that parents can do to navigate big feelings that can lead to a conflict or having fights or arguments in front of your kids. And the first one, actually, I was hoping you could come in with, because this is something Lindsay taught me about that she learned in therapy called the window of tolerance. I believe we love this.

Lindsay 33:22

Yeah, the window of tolerance is a concept that describes like a range of emotional intensities that a person can have. So Dan Siegel, he's a clinical office or clinical professor of psychiatry at the UCLA school of medicine. He created this in 1999, which seems insanely long time ago. Oh my gosh. I feel like that, that this should have been on billboards on highways. Like what's your window of tolerance today? Okay. but anyways, we just learned about this in 2024. Still useful, everybody. Yep, it is. So what the window of tolerance is, is this is a concept. If you can imagine what a window looks like, you have. A window seal that goes across in the middle part. Some, I mean, your window seals in this basement and go vertical, but imagine a box and it has like a top portion and a bottom portion. And, the window of tolerance is the box itself outside of that window on top, you have hyper arousal and hyper arousal is, you're outside of your tolerance for anything in general.

Jordan 34:33

Imagine just your fuse is no longer short, it's gone, anxious,

Lindsay 34:36

angry. You're out of control, you're overwhelmed. Okay? So. You start reflecting on what could possibly make you out of your window of tolerance the moment you wake up in the day. Yours would obviously be, I'm very pregnant. I don't have a lot of patience for X, Y, Z today. Yeah, I'm exhausted. Honestly, like fatigue simply pushes me outside of that window. You are not sitting at that middle, Part of the window, you're already kind of above it. Yeah. And that's something very important for your husband to, or your, your partner to know. And recognize. And recognize. Totally. Okay. And that helps with arguments that potentially could happen throughout the day. Right.

Jordan 35:11

That's what I was gonna say. Like, if, if I can recognize that my husband's outside of his kind of window of tolerance. If I, if I look at him and I'm like, okay. He looks like he is really pushing the edge of his window of tolerance if not has like escaped it This might not be the best time to tell him that he didn't make the bed this morning. Yes Something stupid right

Lindsay 35:33

exactly. So you're you're this is like a way of Understanding what your spouse is going through in the moment or and during the day To, yeah, like you just said, to bring an argument up or not.

Jordan 35:43

Or even just to like, I think something that is really cool about this is that it puts you in a position where you're getting in the habit of looking at things from their perspective before asking yourself, do I want to say this or bring this up right now?

Lindsay 35:58

Exactly. So when you see yourself outside of the window, it won't take much at all to throw you off. And that's where I think a lot of new parents are like, Dealing with.

Jordan 36:09

Yeah, because their window of tolerance is, they're just way outside of it.

Lindsay 36:13

The mental load of everything in one day, in one 24 hour period of time, is throwing you out of the window already. Like, I'm sorry, but, especially if you don't have a lot of help. Like, helping. Yeah, even if you do have a lot of help. Yeah. It's hard. Yeah. So, hyperarousal is essentially a way of reacting. Hypoarousal is below the window. So, this is a type of person that might be just completely zoned out. There's so much going on. They're overstimulated. They're just shutting down. Shutting down. And so, do you find yourself frozen or spacey? Your body just wants to choose nothing to do anymore. You're not choosing to just do nothing, but you're just tapped out. Yeah. Burned out. You know, my husband comes home from work some days and sometimes I want to know what's bothering him. And some days I'm just need to let him not discuss it because he feels better being home than at work, but he's, he taps out, he's not fully himself. And I have to recognize, okay, he's out of his window of tolerance. He's in hypo arousal. He's had a really long day. I'm not going to talk to him about something that could cause an argument right now. Or,

Jordan 37:22

or like, and, and when you're looking at that, you're not thinking to yourself, like you're, it's giving you the tools to not be blaming yourself. Yeah, because you've had a conversation. You understand that one of the things that pushes him outside of his window is a tough day at work. He comes home from work. It's been a tough day. You can look at him and be like, Oh, this is the thing we talked about. Yep. I have to fully trust.

Lindsay 37:44

Yeah, I just learned, that I have to trust His bad day has nothing to do with me. Yeah. And that's hard for me because as a child, yeah, I reflected a lot on all of it having to do with me. So if he comes home from work and he's crabby, I really wanted him to come home from work and as a, you know, like where you're really excited to have you home. But if he's not there yet, I have to just trust that I'm not the problem. So yeah, window of tolerance is awesome. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. That's

Jordan 38:12

yeah. So that's my first. Yeah. Um, you know, maybe not easy, but my first little bit of actionable advice for if you're struggling with this. So my second little bit of advice is something I already mentioned, which is learn to listen first. This is so much easier said than done when you have an emotional response to something and you don't feel like your partner is seeing or hearing you and you just desperately need to be validated. Yes. I totally get that.

Lindsay 38:37

Yeah.

Jordan 38:38

But something that's really good to practice is just use your active listening. So fully listen to what your partner has to say. And then when you, when they're finished saying that thing, let them give you space to summarize what they've said and repeat it back to them as you understand it. So you could say something that could be like, you seemed to get really frustrated when I blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Or when I said this, that really hurt your feelings. am I understanding you correctly? And then, You know, you can kind of take it from there and it's gonna take some practice because you're never gonna be like totally dead on And even if you are there those feelings are still gonna exist. Yeah But that's something that really helps to calm me down in an argument and it's a tool that I use with my kid Oh, yeah, I'm like understand something that you seem you know, like it's so easy for me to see my kid and be like Oh are you Are you feeling frustrated right now? And then she's like, yeah, and we talk about it. And I guess cause toddlers do things that are like, seems so incidental to us. Like their frustrations just seem kind of like trivial, but if we can take, like, if I personally could take that same approach with my partner and be like, Oh, you seem really frustrated that I did this thing. That makes, and then like, just kind of bring it down to that toddler level. Yeah. Yeah. It'll help you to chill out. Yeah. It helps to calm me down a lot. Um, and that brings me to the next point. My third little actionable thing. This is something called the second position. This is a trick I learned many years ago when I was, working with a mental resilience training company. This is, kind of a tactic you can use in any relationship, but I do find it the most useful, like, in your relationship with your partner. So basically the idea is, there are three positions, first, second, and third position, right? In first position, It's kind of just like where we operate from. You're like thinking of kind of yourself and the way you are responding to everything in your environment. Second position is doing the same thing, but from another person's perspective, it's just like walking in someone else's shoes, basically. So when I see that my partner's frustrated, The best thing I can do is, or sad, or if they're having an emotion that I'm not understanding, is to try and put myself, really put myself, like mentally,

Lindsay 40:50

in their, in their

Jordan 40:52

position and look at things from where they are sitting. If you're struggling to do this, there's a crazy little hack that is, Mind bendingly effective. So, what you do is, and this is, this will work if you're trying to understand what kind of emotion anyone is going through. We have mirror neurons, we have really, really innate understanding of people's facial expressions. Oh yeah. Even you wear

Lindsay 41:16

expressions. So if like you wear it on your sleeve, you can tell what they're like

Jordan 41:19

going through, even if they don't. So like sometimes, sometimes my husband's like kind of just like, you know, like reserved a little bit. But if I look at him and you try to mimic the facial expression that they're making, even just not like blatantly. 'cause that'll probably just send them be like, whatcha, whatcha doing? But if you just like look at their face. And imagine that you're making that face and wow, like micro muscles in your own face to like just kind of get an idea of what their face is doing that will put you in their frame of mind and like give you the emotion. So you have that. It's crazy. Try it. Okay. I will super cool. It's really wild. Um, so you can try that if you're like really struggling to just put yourself there because your own mind is racing. Just say, okay, I'm going to step outside of myself. And just mimic the face facial expression and see what happens just see what happens. It's wild and then the third position that I mostly was just wanting to talk about the second position, but third positions since I mentioned it is when you are able to Take yourself and basically put yourself outside Of the context looking in yeah So if I like for example the last time my husband and I argued I went outside for a second You Got a visual

Lindsay 42:34

of like what it was like inside. Yeah,

Jordan 42:36

like I just kind of removed myself, pictured the scene inside that I had just lived through, and tried to find compassion for both of them. Parties and see if I could see what happened without the, but you kind of like detach from the emotion first. So something that really helps for that is to like shake your body really quickly and you're just like, wiggle everything out. It's like a little nervous system.

Lindsay 42:58

Or

Jordan 42:58

dance if you are a dancey person. Yeah, you probably aren't. Okay, so then the fourth thing, um, this one's a little bit quicker, but the fourth thing is something that I would like to implement that I haven't yet. Okay. Which is to have a specific phrase that you can use, and obviously you'd have to promise each other. You'll respect the other person using that and hold yourselves accountable. But like, have a phrase that tells the other person that you're getting too worked up and that this needs to be a conversation that's had later outside of the presence of your kids. So something like, I'm feeling like this could work me up. Let's maybe return to this conversation when we have more space. And if you have the practice, like the mental rehearsal of. doing this before you're actually in the negative context, then when the negative context comes up, both you and your partner are equipped to like take that time and space and then create space to make the conversation happen later. Of course. That's yeah. So you can just say, what time can we talk about this? Yep. And then you make a plan to talk about it. And your kid's not around and you have hopefully avoided Yeah, that argument. Yeah, so those are four little tips for everyone to try and use if you are finding yourself in a chapter of life where you're struggling with arguments. I love that. Yeah. This is a good episode so far. Oh, if it's a big one. It feels like a lot. But anyway, yeah, so the key takeaway, it's actually super important. Like the mending thing is important if you find yourself arguing, but I think that we should all probably prioritize the time side. Yep. And not having to argue. Not, I think arguing and disagreeing in front of your kid is fine. I think if you're feeling like your nervous system is dysregulating, it's time to, yeah, you don't want to get to a disrespectful situation. Nope. So yeah, that's what I'm going to be working on. Let me know how it goes for you all.

Lindsay 44:49

Probably going to be working on it forever. I think so.

Jordan 44:52

I definitely think so. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Anyway, take

Lindsay 44:56

us away from this, Lindsay. Yeah, this is like really going to take us away. Okay. Cool. We're trending now. Okay. so something I'm coming across on my social media, and I know that algorithms are a thing, but, this is also really big in the, natural holistic, realm of taking care of your body. I'm seeing it especially with, pregnancy how to take care of yourself before and after I'm even seeing it now like, I don't know if this has something to do with the big tampon scandal that happened like a month ago, but a lot of us women are having issues with pain in our pelvic region and with our uterus and our ovaries and just all kinds of like issues. This is something that's trending really cool. It's called, A castor oil pack. Okay. So you're probably like, what is that? I am like, I mean, I've

Jordan 45:45

heard of it's really, really bizarre.

Lindsay 45:48

So I use castor oil on my face. Okay. I've used it in my hair before. It does need like an extra carrier oil to go with it. Cause it's very thick and it's very sticky and it just works better when it has a carrier oil. So right now I'm using it on my face with jojoba oil and frankincense. essential oil. Nice. It's really nice. I really can tell the difference. My face is cleaned up quite a bit. Your face does look great. Yeah, like I've always, I've struggled a lot with acne out here in the dry desert climate. But, um, since using castor oil, wowza, I'm like really seeing the benefits. Cool. So a castor oil pack is also really great. This is something that is like castor, warmed castor oil, literally poured onto a thick organic cotton wrap that can go So you just take fabric and pour

Jordan 46:34

castor oil on it and wrap has to be thick

Lindsay 46:36

because you really want, you have to pour a lot of castor oil on this sucker. And so, so what you want is you have castor oil, one, and it just, it really truly needs to be like organic, cold pressed, unrefined castor oil. Because you don't want extra ingredients that are in this castor oil entering your bloodstream. Sure. Through your, through your skin vessels and such. Right. And then you need, a pack, which is a wrap that goes around the abdomen. I think people use these around joints too, that I've like, had issues, if people have like knee joint issues, they make little packs that you can put around your knee joints and such. So this is

Jordan 47:09

like a pain relief thing? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Lindsay 47:12

And if you find yourself constipated or it can increase air circulation, it can improve like skin. Yeah, I'll get to that point, but you have your castor oil, you have your castor oil wrap, thick organic cotton. Again, you don't want dyes in this fabric or anything like that because that will seep it through into your skin from the oil. You do not want that. and what you do is, like, you basically just, you have your warm pack, you can warm it up, you can warm up the castor oil, do not use a microwave to warm these things up, there's radiation, well fuck it all happens. So you can warm this up, like, over the stove, over the stove top, in a pan, and you can then pour it onto the pack. Lay the pack over your abdomen This is where I'm most commonly seeing it is over the abdomen. Okay, and so Go ahead. Yeah, so it's used to solve like passing stool if you're constipated It's used to help with hemorrhoids Cysts, fibroids, adhesions, scar tissue, if you say you've had like laparoscopic surgery or C section. Yes. Yeah. Endometriosis, it can help with it. These, this does not cure these things. FYI. Sure. It's just really helps. Like a symptom relief. Yeah. Okay. Symptom relief. And it can really help alleviate the condition as well. It can help with PCOS, poor egg quality, bladder, digestive issues, um, fatty liver. A lot of people will have a big enough pack to put over the liver and that can help with like a fatty liver, high cholesterol, detox situation. Interesting. It's really cool. It's really fascinating. I, I have not personally tried a castor oil pack on my abdomen before, but I'm very intrigued to and I'm going to, I, I'm I'm curious on doing it when I'm constipated after having my child.

Jordan 48:57

Yeah. I was going to say, do, do you have people do this during pregnancy? They do not. Okay. So you

Lindsay 49:02

can do it. Three to four times a week. I got to sit with this thing on for like 45 minutes to an hour. So, this has to be Sorry about it toddler moms, this is not for us. Yeah, this is like something that like, if you can find yourself relaxing for an hour without interruption, give it a try, um, there's a time to do it during your, during your cycle. if you're actively trying to conceive, Use it only during the first part of your menstrual cycle. Oh, okay. Because you don't really, if you're gonna bleed during your menstrual cycle, you don't want to bleed more. Sure. This creates a lot of blood flow and a lot of detoxing. that. So this is something that's advised to use I would say end of menstruation, maybe that last day. Yeah, sure. Um, up until the time of your ovulation. So. Date like two weeks you could do this three to four times a day because ovulation is typically four times a day Sorry, three to four times a week No three to four times a week You want to test this to make sure that this is chill for your body first? Yeah, do a small patch of your skin for 24 hours like moving forward with a big wrap. This can cause like diarrhea if after the first time you do it. So maybe 45 minutes to an hour isn't ideal. The first time you do it, work your way up. Other times you want to avoid using it is if you're breastfeeding or, if you're pregnant, big, big no, no. Okay. So if you're breastfeeding, you should do a wrap even on your abdomen. The effects that this castor oil has isn't known yet for how it would affect a baby.

Jordan 50:41

So I think I've seen castor oil, like the only time that this sounded familiar when you started talking about it was during. Like, I swear I saw people doing casserole packs, like, immediately postpartum. But is that not a thing, do you think, because of the breastfeeding thing? Or is that maybe just something people do anyway? Because there's always people who are, like, comfortable with that uncertainty.

Lindsay 51:04

See, I personally kind of want to try it for constipation. Yeah. And, but I guess something that I would recommend if you, if you're having a C section, you can't use this on like an, a fresh incision. Sure. You have to wait until probably after. I've seen too many infected incisions come back with people trying to do like home remedies and you're like, you can not put this kind of oil on like a incision or essential oils in any incision. Yeah oh, another thing too. so obviously if you're using like this piece of fabric, you can buy all this fabric Amazon. You obviously aren't going to be, you want to use that again, right? If you're going to do it like mulch, so don't throw it away and don't buy it like pack after pack after pack. So you can bundle this thing after you're done using it. After your time of rest is over, you can bundle this up and put it like in a Ziploc bag and put it in your fridge. Oh, okay. But don't put it on your body cold again. Like take it out of the fridge when next time you're ready to use it, use warm castor oil from the stovetop. You could use a heat pack to keep like bundle it up, roll it up in a heating pad or warm water bottles. Yeah. That kind of thing. So yeah. Cool. Wrap it up, save it for later.

Jordan 52:20

That's good to know. That's a time saving step. Yeah, for sure. So Castor

Lindsay 52:25

Oil Packs are really interesting. Yeah, cool. Yeah, I think I would like to dive into more about using it postpartum. Yeah, you'll have to let me know.

Jordan 52:32

Maybe that's something we can touch base on later once we've actually figured that out. We're not there yet, guys. We're not there yet. We got time. Yeah, that's awesome. We feel like we think we have time. Oh, geez, yeah. sweet. Well, I've got a recommendation for this week. Yeah. For there. Okay. Okay. This is like, not going to sound even true, but I'm telling you guys, this is legit. Okay. So there's a recipe for Chocolate chip cookies that I'm obsessed with, okay? The one that you share with me. Yeah. So I'm not a freaking, like, so, okay, I've got nothing, I totally understand people have dietary needs and restrictions, like, I've been there, I get it, I'm like, with you, in spirit. Yeah. If not, in like, I still eat dairy and gluten, but this is a gluten free and dairy free chocolate chip cookie recipe that I still prefer to every other chocolate chip because it's the tahini. It's so good. It's so good. Yeah. So they're tahini chocolate chip cookies. And the recipe is basically like, I'll just kind of list the ingredients. So if you can't have them, you can just like be like, nevermind. But it's basically like almond flour, Lots of tahini. I sometimes will throw even like a little bit of peanut butter, like do part tahini, part peanut butter, that slaps. baking soda, an egg, chocolate chips. And maple syrup. Like, that's it. And then you can throw some collagen peptides in there if you want to. The first time you brought them over, I ate them all. Dude, it's I was like, that's my snack. It's so good. And it feels like semi guilfory because you're like, there's not refined sugar. Yeah. There's not like tons of, I don't feel that bad about eating butter, but there's not like tons of butter or shortening. I did

Lindsay 54:18

not feel like shit. You feel so good after it's like

Jordan 54:21

rejuvenating. The tahini has like magical properties that make you feel like a unicorn after you eat them. So go try this recipe. So hang on, let me find it.

Lindsay 54:29

It's so delish. It's there. Yeah. I craved those like two nights ago, I think. I craved them all the time. I was like, man, I kind of want chocolate chip cookies in the oven. I was like, I know a recipe that I could really love to enjoy. Oh, they're

Jordan 54:43

so good. Okay, so to find the recipe, because I don't want to give you the whole recipe, but I'm telling you, try these before you like, disregard me. Please just try them. the recipe is at, it's a food blog called Kale Junkie. Like, K L K A L E junkie dot com, or just, this is what I do to find it every time, just google life changing chocolate chip tahini cookies and this is what will pop up. just do yourself a favor, make these cookies, do not skip on the salt, like, if you don't have Maldon salt at home, it tells you to put a little Maldon salt on top before you Oh, she's got a lot of

Lindsay 55:20

tahini recipes, that's cool. Yeah, I'm not too surprised, I haven't

Jordan 55:23

tried any other ones, but yeah, put, if you don't put salt on top, you can use Maldon salt on top, or you can just use regular salt on top, mineral salt on, whatever you have, or you can throw some salt in the recipe, but you definitely need a little bit of salt. On top. Oh yeah. Somewhere. Yes. Just generally. Yum. If you don't put salt on top, then put salt in the dough. They're so good. They're crazy good. Yeah. That's my, I was like craving those the other day and I was like, I should recommend those on the podcast because it's seriously one of my favorite recipes of all time.

Lindsay 55:51

Cool. I should check out her other tahini recipes because that, that ingredient, that ingredient It is so yum.

Jordan 55:58

It is yum. And you can get some relatively inexpensive organic tahini from Trader Joe's that works really nicely. Yes, that's where we

Lindsay 56:03

get ours too. I just went to her website and did the search and just typed in tahini and like that's where a lot of other recipes and that obvious cookie one came up.

Jordan 56:13

Yeah. Cool. Go make them. Tahini

Lindsay 56:16

chocolate chip freezer fudge. Okay. I'm not a fudgy kind of girl but I would try tahini fudge to see if I could. I sure

Jordan 56:22

would.

Lindsay 56:23

Yum. Wow.

Jordan 56:24

Look, we'll let you know how the other recipes go.

Lindsay 56:28

Oh, spicy tahini noodles. Okay. This is making me hungry. Awesome.

Jordan 56:36

I love it. All right. Well, that's all we've got for you then today. I hope you enjoyed listening to, uh, my calamities and my window of tolerance and castor oil packs. Yeah. Bye. Just. Switch it up. Cookies. Switch it up. Oh, cool. Well, we will come at you soon, um, maybe by the next time we, I'm not sure if the next time we record, I will have had a, or we, nevermind, I was going to say maybe by the next time we release an episode, I will have

Lindsay 57:03

had a kid. Yeah. We'll be recording. Yeah. I think a few more times, right? Yeah. And then we're not like releasing them because we obviously have work to do and we have edits and we have busy lives. So we'll see where we get to. Yeah.

Jordan 57:17

But yeah. Cheers. I hope you all have a lovely, whatever time of day it is for you. Yeah. Or time of year. Exactly. When this releases. We'll see. Oh, I should have said.. Like us. Oh yeah. If you want to follow us on social media. Yeah.

Lindsay 57:32

This has been great. Um, please like. Subscribe. Please subscribe. Please rate us. Please leave a fun review. If you want to. It feels great. We love it. Like, we love it. It just makes us feel like there's more. Friends out there that understand. Yeah We love friends going on. Yeah,

Jordan 57:51

everybody needs a good good friend. Of

Lindsay 57:53

course

Jordan 57:53

Um, well, you can find us on Instagram and we have kids podcast and yeah, we will check you guys soon Have a good one