Jordan 0:00

It would be really scary to have that experience and then look down the barrel of, um, Yeah. Potentially having it again. Mm hmm when you're putting so much of your like heart and soul into trying to like Yeah, a new life. Yeah. Yeah, it's a

Lindsay 0:13

big deal =really crazy And I just remember asking myself, how, how do people do this again?

Jordan 0:31

Hey. Hi. Hi. Hi, how's it going?

Lindsay 0:37

Hanging out during nap time. Yep,

Jordan 0:40

that's what we do. Sometimes we have to. Yep, that's, that's, that's what it's like to be a mom. You get, you get a little bit of time to yourself and it's while your kid's asleep. Yes. So here we are. This is We Have Kids.

Lindsay 0:54

We Have Kids. Yep. And we have, we are wondering if we should have more.

Jordan 0:59

We are wondering if we should have more. Yeah. Big topic. We've been talking about this a lot lately and it wasn't even supposed to be slotted in as a topic for our podcast, but it became such a kind of emotional and heated. Discussion that yeah, we thought it'd be a fun one to share with everyone before we got too into it. Yeah, but yeah, let's chat a little bit. Let's catch up. It's been a

Lindsay 1:21

minute. Yeah, I'm trying to understand why it's been a minute. I've had, I had surgery a few days ago and I think I'm just recovering essentially from that. More so from the anesthesia than the surgery, I feel.

Jordan 1:36

Yeah, that's usually

Lindsay 1:37

the case. So yeah, I've been putting off a little wrist surgery, I have a condition called de Quervain's, I don't know if anyone has really ever heard of this. I'm sure there are

Jordan 1:48

other moms who have heard

Lindsay 1:49

of it. Yeah. And so this is like a condition where you have inflammation in the tendons that run through the distal radius into your thumb. My thumb is like all jacked and cute and black and blue. Yeah, it's dark. Yeah. So, yeah, it's just tightening and inflammation of the tendon that runs right through that channel. And it's from doing the same movement that you've never really done your whole life. All of a sudden you're doing it every day, all day, over and over and over. What is that?

Jordan 2:19

What is that movement? Yeah, for me, picking up a

Lindsay 2:23

baby. Yeah. Uh, it's just one of those things where you can like ice and brace and yada, yada, yada. But when you're busy, stay at home, mom, it's just kind of like impossible to deal with and there, but there is a surgery to help and I figure I'm probably not going to be done picking her

Jordan 2:36

up until. You got a little while. A few.

Lindsay 2:40

Quite a few years. Yeah, definitely. So I went ahead with the surgery and just recovering from anesthesia, I think mostly this week than anything else. Yeah. Surgery is really

Jordan 2:49

fast. Yeah. So we didn't get together for the first little bit of the week from that. My husband, yeah, Adrian had surgery for his thumb. He got in a mountain biking accident. Yeah. Uh, kind of at the end of last summer, early fall and finally got around to getting his thumb fixed. So I just, I've got. Couple other family members who've had surgery. It's been a it's

Lindsay 3:08

been a crazy couple weeks like all of a sudden everyone around you Yeah, and

Jordan 3:12

then also I've had a what were you say no keep going about surgery

Lindsay 3:27

I'm done. No? Okay. If anyone needs like a good wrist hand surgeon, I got one for you. Okay.

Jordan 3:33

Yeah. Come to Utah. We'll get you covered. Yeah. Well, not covered. Your insurance is going to have to cover it.

Lindsay 3:40

We'll get you covered with all the info. Yeah. I know. Step

Jordan 3:43

one. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I have my kiddo. I just started swim lessons. That's another thing I've been really busy with. Yeah. Yeah, it's been super fun. I, she's, she's one and a half. She just turned 18 months yesterday. I didn't even do anything. Oh, whoa. Or think about it once

Lindsay 4:00

it happens.

Jordan 4:01

Geez. It's all good. It does happen. Wow. Yay. 18 months. Yeah, 18 months. And she's, she's doing really well swimming. It's so funny because she gets in the water, they dunk her and they flip her onto her back and do all these cool, like, survival things with her. And she. The first time took really well to it and then after that she kind of just like screams her way through the ten minutes that the They're ten minute lessons each day Yeah, so I kind of thought that she was hating it but when we get in the car to leave I don't know if anyone else's have this experience with anything, but it's my first time having this experience. It's weird You think she's hating it hating it hating in the pool because she's literally screaming bloody murder But then we get in the car and she all she can talk about is swimming And she'll like wake up in the morning and I'll get her out of her car we've been going in the morning, like 8. 50, so we're leaving the house around 8. 20. I get her up for the day, and I'm like, Hey, what are we gonna do today? And she goes, Swimming! And gets all stoked, and then is like, Splash! Splash! And then says, Turtle! Cause her favorite little toy that they play with in there is a turtle. And then cries the whole way through the Interesting. Session again,

Lindsay 5:09

when you get her back in the car from the lesson, is she still like upset?

Jordan 5:12

Nope, not at all. She's like done being upset. The moment she gets out of the pool, she's done crying. She turns around and looks at the kids who are in the pool. There's usually one other kid still swimming in the pool and then she swaps out with somebody else. So just two, two at a time. And she looks at the other kid in the pool and all she's transfixed. All she wants to do is watch

Lindsay 5:30

them. Yeah. That's very

Jordan 5:32

interesting. And she loves

Lindsay 5:33

watching them. Cause you're like, I actually don't know what she's feeling.

Jordan 5:37

Yeah. So me and Adrian are like, was she just like overwhelmed? And that's where the tears are coming from. But it doesn't mean that she's having a bad time necessarily. She's just like hyper stimulated and learning new skills and that can be a lot. Interesting. That's my only guess. Yeah, but that's pretty much it. Um, other, other, um, anything else? I have family visiting. Well, I have my surgery just to help me out around the house, which has been great. My daughter loves her grandma and grandpa. Aww. Yeah, so they're getting good, good time to see her. I booked a trip to Florida coming up. Oh yeah, you're going to Florida, that's awesome. Yeah,

Lindsay 6:13

with my girlfriends from back in Minnesota. So that'll be fun, just to get away and sit in the hot Florida sun in April, I can't wait. Yeah, that'll be sweet. And then you and I have a trip coming up in St. George in May. Yeah. That's something to look forward to. Yeah. It's just kind of like we're just living through the end of the winter here. Getting excited for spring. Yeah. And

Jordan 6:35

also thinking about what comes next.

Lindsay 6:41

What do you mean? Oh, like if we're having kids. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Man, Jordan and I have these conversations almost daily. Right. For a long, for a

Jordan 6:53

while. Yeah. Yeah. So it started with like you, um, I'm older. Yeah. Sure.

Lindsay 7:00

So I guess maybe that's probably what brought in the conversation because I was like, damn, I need to have another kid quick. Yeah.

Jordan 7:06

And I feel like you started trying for a while there, like, and I wasn't ready at all to be trying. I was like, Oh, you're going for it? We

Lindsay 7:13

got pregnant. Yeah. I unfortunately had a miscarriage at that pregnancy, but, um, we, Got pregnant a lot sooner than I freaking thought we were gonna totally and I was like wow that so I was pregnant for about 11 weeks 12 weeks. I found out 12 weeks that I was miscarrying And then ever since that it's what we took a step back like, okay, let's just slow things down we had a really hectic fall stressful for both of us we had our miscarriage at that time and Like, let's just take a step back and just kind of re evaluate and slow down and calm down. And like, you know, we took it as a sign as like, maybe it was a reason that we couldn't have that baby at this time. And uh, re center, yes. Like just kind of get our heads like back to where we were when we were trying to conceive our first born. and then ever since then, it's just been kind of like a time to. Look at how my postpartum experience was and I had a tough one that came out of nowhere for me and a lot of my family and friends were surprised by that happening to me as well. And so I had time to kind of look at that and be like, man, I really don't want to go through that again. Yeah. So what? So I have to make sure like that I have that conversation with family and friends. What can we do that this doesn't happen? This X, Y, Z. What, what are Lindsay's support systems? Like, what can we do completely different so that I do have a better postpartum experience if I'm gonna have another child? Yeah, absolutely. Um, so it's just been like a lot of back and forth because I've obviously opened up a lot about this topic with you and you've been wonderful and giving me that like insight like Your experience was you guys both, both decided on having two kids My husband and I agreed to have two kids initially.

Jordan 9:09

I thought you wanted three initially. Did you

Lindsay 9:11

ever want three? No, Andrew does. Oh, maybe that's what I was thinking. Yeah, he, he does. He wants like a, I think he's even thinking about freezing some of his sperm in case I changed my mind after his vasectomy. Oh, really? Yeah. He's even thinking of it. I'm like, I

Jordan 9:26

don't know how I would,

Lindsay 9:29

but you'd

Jordan 9:30

never know. So yeah, you do never know. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, I think it's not. Wait, maybe it is expensive.

Lindsay 9:36

I would imagine it's got to be a little price tag on

Jordan 9:38

that. Yeah, maybe Yeah, I have no idea. I've never thought of that Like for myself. Yeah

Lindsay 9:45

Yeah, so we'll just I don't know. I'm this this conversation is gonna go back and forth a lot on this episode, but Um, we initially decided on two and I think that that's that initial decision is holding pretty strong. Yeah. On one. For the most part. Yeah. For the most part. And on one end of it. And then the other end of it is just like my postpartum experience that I felt really strongly about. Yeah. And went through that is making me feel hesitant. Going through miscarriage was obviously. Oh, a huge part of that. A huge part of that. Yeah. And I don't want to go through. A couple more of those at all. There's a lot of women that I really admire for trying and trying and trying and trying. I don't know how they can get themselves through that. It's really inspiring that they can just keep trying and trying and trying, but I am somebody that definitely after going through that, that one last fall, I don't know if I can go through two more of those. Yeah. So, and it takes a long time, like my cycle's been way off since that miscarriage. It is even right now it's off. And so it's just taking a long time to kind of just regulate your hormones

Jordan 10:48

again. It's got to take a long time too, because it's, um, it should go without saying that it's a really heavy emotional experience. Yeah, but I don't so my perception of miscarriage before I ever got pregnant and I haven't had a miscarriage fortunately. Um, but, but my perception of it was that it was like. I don't know. It was like a, I don't want to say it was just like a period that was heavier, but you don't really think about how, how emotionally taxing it actually is and how devastating it can be and how disruptive to your life and to your goals and to your dreams and to like this new position that you, you know, like getting pregnant is such a big deal in your head. It changes everything. It changes the way you move forward. Yeah, I don't know. I think, yeah, so I just wanted to call out the fact that we didn't necessarily mention specifically that A miscarriage is a big heavy thing, but that is a big heavy thing and that's gonna mess with your ability to re regulate too.

Lindsay 11:46

Yeah, I think i'm gonna move forward with the decision that You know, I've obviously talked with my husband about this, but if I were to have one more miscarriage I think I would be done trying. Interesting. And then just see if I would get pregnant again before the age of like 41 or 42.

Jordan 12:00

When you say just see, like, you would just, like, Casually try. Right. Like, not even, yeah. Tracking ovulation cycles. Correct. But you would maybe just not use contraceptives. Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay 12:11

Yeah. I think I'm, yeah, just to kind of keep, get the load off my

Jordan 12:14

mind. Yeah. And kind of like, just not to sound too woo woo, but let the universe just do with you what it will. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes you do have to surrender a little bit like that and that's okay. Yeah. There's

Lindsay 12:24

always, yeah. Even like going through that miscarriage of the word surrender that you just mentioned, there's definitely a good level of surrendering to that even though too, which is so hard. Yeah. It's so hard to surrender to that fully because I'm still like going through, uh, the emotions of it all. Not every day anymore, but it comes kind of randomly and it's still pretty strong and emotional, but man, that part of my life or going through that experience has really like dived into Deciding about having another kid or not. Yeah crazy.

Jordan 12:56

Yeah, so talk a little bit about About those feelings. Obviously, Andrew has made up his mind. He definitely wants to, and there's no kind of back and forth in his head, it sounds like. Interesting. Yeah, so me and Lindsay started having this conversation, just for context here. We started having this conversation, and then I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait. Before we get heated and emotional, we should, we should save it. So I don't know everything here. I know little bits, but. But yeah, I'm here, I'm here to hear about this experience and to add my own because I, I too have had thoughts that are like, yeah, do this could be easy to just have one kid. Yes. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. So back, back to you though. So Andrew does just want to, when did the feelings start coming up for you that you were like, when did you start thinking to yourself, maybe one could be the right number for

Lindsay 13:43

you? Um, I would say initially into postpartum. Um, probably within the first few

Jordan 13:48

weeks. So pre miscarriage.

Lindsay 13:50

Yes. Pre miscarriage I had those feelings like right in the heat of my postpartum because I was going through Demer and just kind of like icky tough stuff that I didn't have a lot of support for like right in the get go of it, right in the beginning of it all. And I just remember asking myself, how, how do people do this again? Yeah. and I just want to preface that my daughter was an incredible baby. She was happy. She slept well. She ate well. not colic, not like anything. It was all, uh, um, my hormones were going whack and crazy. And he just really had a really hard time like managing it. And also just didn't have like the tools to, to know how to manage any of it either.

Jordan 14:38

That sounds like, uh, our next podcast episode. Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay 14:42

Yeah. We were going to dive into fourth trimester and I wish I had dove really into that before she was born. But I didn't know, like, I just didn't have the resources to dive into that until after. So, which I have a feeling a lot of moms go through. Yeah, definitely, definitely. But we're learning about fourth trimester now, and we're taking all the steps we can to, uh, if we do have another baby, be ready to go. and then you know, just some time went by and I didn't really think about it or have issues with it. We were just like, Oh, my age is up there. Let's start trying when I get like my cycle back. And then how,

Jordan 15:20

how old are you? Just so everyone can, would anyone like to

Lindsay 15:23

know? I will, I'm 37 years old and I will be 38 the end of this year. Which we are going to try for probably be 38 when I have my next baby. Yeah. 39. It's fine. It's fine. You're healthy. Yeah. Yeah. You've got your support. Yes. Yeah. It's all good. Um, but yeah, I'm up there and, um, it's crazy how, Just being at that, like I'm just gonna steer off of here for a second. It's just crazy that like when you are above 35, how much that is highlighted and worried and added like stress in the healthcare, in the healthcare setting and then also from like random conversations too. It's just kind of like a heightened part of the conversation when you are having the conversation about having kids and how the age that you are and like, whatever. I don't know why it has to be part of the conversation, but there's also like, I was, I'm, I'm a very healthy individual. So my appointments were quick, which is, I'm so grateful for. It's kind of annoying that you have as many appointments as you do when you're over 35. When you are pregnant, you have them like every four weeks. And they were just, but they were quick and they were good. So yada, yada, yada. So I'm feeling good about it, but it's still like now that I'm coming back into the beginning of trying again. You're possibly entering that part of life. It's why is that such like a stressor on my mind? You know, it's just like

Jordan 16:50

right there. It's like gotten to you. Yes.

Lindsay 16:52

Yeah. but okay. So, then it started again, that feeling of holding off. Maybe we shouldn't be having another kid after my miscarriage. Yeah. Just with all the emotions that go involved with that. That makes

Jordan 17:04

sense. Yeah. It's scary. It would be really scary to have that experience and then look down the barrel of, um, Yeah. Potentially having it again. Mm hmm when you're putting so much of your like heart and soul into trying to like Yeah, a new life. Yeah. Yeah, it's a

Lindsay 17:20

big deal really crazy how strong of a feeling it is to be like I Never want to go through a miscarriage again. Yeah, I never ever ever want to feel that sorrow I never ever ever want to feel That For me, and for, for one, I was out in public when it happened. So like, I never want to obviously go through like that feeling of it either. But like the amount that it holds on me is to never go through it again. It's really hard because I never want to go through it like that again. I should probably find like a group of moms out there that have gone through miscarriages and can share. about their experiences and but that was in September. It was now March. And so now the feeling of like trying again is creeping up on, on our fam, on our plan. And I'm hesitant because I haven't been trying since our

Jordan 18:18

miscarriage. You haven't had to like, yeah, you haven't had to prioritize it and think about it.

Lindsay 18:24

Yeah. Right. So I'm trying to, ease my way into the, I, you know, the, the conception contract is something that we're talking about The fact that like you kind of get your, your mindset with your same with your spouse, you're both ready to try. You're both on the same page. You're both like ready to accept what it is that happens. So now I'm creeping into that and it's really like a lot slower than my

Jordan 18:48

first. Interesting. Are you having any tension, uh, in the sort of like differences that are happening between your mental state? Approaching this and Andrew's mental state approaching

Lindsay 18:59

this a little bit. Yeah, he's he's all ready to go. Yeah And I think that has something to do with it. You know his body not going through. Oh, yeah, of course it does through everything He's ready to go, but he also is like Learning how to hear me out and hear about my experience really being patient Really trying to understand without understanding, you know, like when you when they don't go through it but He's definitely being patient, but he's definitely also, like, ready to go for it and I'm

Jordan 19:30

like, Does that, yeah, it's, it

Lindsay 19:33

is, it is hard. Yeah. I, I definitely don't, like, look at that as like a negative thing. It is what it is because he is a male and like, because he can, and he hasn't gotten through like, Um, anything that I go through, absolutely.

Jordan 19:46

And if you do, if ultimately at the, in the deepest part of your bones, you are congruent with the idea of carrying on and trying to conceive and having another baby in your family. I think that, well, if it were me, I would want my husband to have that readiness because I think it's something that I could maybe like, yeah, borrow

Lindsay 20:05

from. Yes. Yeah. I definitely am. That's a great word. I'm definitely borrowing a little bit from people's positive. remarks to the experience I did have. There is some, it's something very interesting. Like obviously it's there's like sadness and sorrow and dark, but then there's also like this light that was reassuring that it wasn't meant to be at that time. It's very interesting.

Jordan 20:29

Yeah. Yeah. It's a wild, like, it sounds like, it sounds like a motherhood journey in that it's, uh, when, yeah, when I first became a mom, I was like, the emotions and the hormones and the craziness it felt like the extremes, like you get extreme joy and like wonder and awe and like, just taking it back so much that your breath kind of goes. And then at the same time you just get Overwhelmed and your brain's overworked and you just are so run down and it's just like Suddenly all of these extremes exist in one moment together. Yeah in a way that they just didn't before And it sounds a little bit like that Like yeah, like it's almost hard to contend with the the two ends of the things that you're feeling. Yeah

Lindsay 21:12

one thing that you and I also have had conversations about that is reassuring too is time does get better or, you know, as, as time goes on, it gets better. And that was really hard. Yeah. Yeah. And that was really hard for me to hear in the thick of my postpartum and just weeks. I was like, how is that even possible to like, see that, how is it even possible? Like that almost sounded like annoying and I didn't want to hear it, but now experiencing that and you also experiencing that, like now that we both can look. hindsight 2020 we're like okay that was like a period of time that was really difficult that we conquered and then that makes you feel strong and empowered and like you can do it and obviously having a second baby's gonna have it's another set of like trials yeah and

Jordan 21:58

another set of things you have to learn like yeah it's not as yeah it's not the same as having one kid again yeah having just one kid

Lindsay 22:05

i know what i kind of it's interesting because i'm gonna look i have a feeling i'm gonna look back at What it was like having one and be like, that was so easy, but I still want to validate like all the tough moments that I did conquer and go through. So this is, this conversation is just kind of really huge and all over the place and yeah. Every day there's something like a. a reason to hold off or, and then another day goes on and there's a reason to move forward. Totally.

Jordan 22:35

Yeah, so I think that the last time, I think when we were doing our classic Marco Polo ing about this, you were, you were really in like a mental state that was like, You were in a no place for having another kid. And that was really interesting for me to see. I hadn't seen it before with you. You would like, cause we always kind of had both of our plans were to have two kids, like we already said. So it was really interesting for me to be like, Oh, maybe she's not gonna. Go for it again, because it was really like she was really coming through with these feelings that were like big and clearly super heavy and it was, yeah, felt pretty considered. So if you don't mind kind of getting into that headspace a little bit, um, I don't want to bring up like too much negative emotional stuff, but I do also think that it's important and valuable for everyone to kind of see, see what this looks like. What, what are the things that you're thinking in those moments where you're like, are you looking at your kid playing and thinking, I'm happy and I don't want to be unhappy. Are you looking at your kid thinking she's enough? Are you thinking I couldn't love another kid this month? Like where, like what are the thoughts that you're having that are creating

Lindsay 23:40

that response? So those, that day that I had that strong feeling of no, those are days that, um, that I am. Um, still, um, working through my emotions of my miscarriage. Like I said, those aren't every day, they come and go. So that was probably a dark day for me, just to kind of like, it just hits you all of a sudden. I don't know how to explain it. I don't even know if there's triggers from it or what, but it just like hit me and sometimes Like, if I'm not, like, taking care of my, like, doing my normal self care thing it can kind of creep in a little bit. So those moments. And that would be maybe a sign of depression or something. Sure. Um, but like, if I'm not taking care of, like, doing my self care, like, routinely or something and then I all of a sudden have that emotion come in kind of in the middle of all that, that's when, like, the big no comes in because it's like, that was way too hard. I don't know how I can do that.

Jordan 24:34

Yeah, so it's just like an overwhelm to the point of shutting down and being like, uh uh. Yeah, that's a

Lindsay 24:39

big no. But then the next day, you know, I talk through it, like, you're a great person to get on Marco Polo with and just verbalize my feelings. And then you are also a great listener and you come back with great feedback and I feel better about what I said because it was validated, justified, and there's still light. It's like there's still some hope there that can, like Obviously, yeah, make me feel good about the days that I do want to have a bigger family. Sure.

Jordan 25:07

And I don't remember exactly what I said. I don't remember exactly what either of us said.

Lindsay 25:10

About, I think we were just talking about logistics. Like, yeah, that sounds right. Okay. Like if we had two kids, they wouldn't be, one of them wouldn't be feeling lonely. If they, as with aging parents, you know, like, I think we were just kind of talking about like. That kind of stuff, like the logistics of having two versus one throughout their life. They have a great friendship when they're siblings and that's all wonderful and beautiful. And those are definite, like, reasons I want to have more. Um, but to answer your question, I am okay with how happy. My daughter is and how much attention I'm giving her. Sure. and I am just so nervous that I'm gonna, I mean, I know a fricking every mom was going to feel this way because a lot, there are a lot of work working moms that are missing out on time with their kids and you name it. But I, I just like, I feel so Shitty if I miss out on that time with her.

Jordan 26:03

Mm hmm that one on one time. Yeah

Lindsay 26:05

yeah, and that's what I worry the most or interesting or the most is that I'm just like Gonna be missing out on time. So that I obviously clearly need to work on and like make a list and like understand like How I am gonna be like Having time for both of them.

Jordan 26:21

Yeah, that's interesting. That's something I haven't thought that much about myself, but I just read an article yesterday that was talking about exactly that. It was somebody who was asking how I make time for my toddler when I have a new baby. I think there were like three things that the article said. One was, um, obviously utilize nap time, which is like the classic go to mom move. And it terrifies me to think about not having my own space during nap time, but that's kind of a separate combo Um, well, it's not that is a reason to not have another kid, right? Yeah, if you don't feel like you have enough time for yourself, and you're really starting to lose your your sense of self and your identity Yeah, a good reason to not have another kid would be because you Don't feel like you can yeah. Yeah, like that's totally valid and I think yeah, that's something that a lot of people get shit Like having people accuse other people who use that excuses. Yeah being selfish. I don't personally think there's anything wrong with being selfish Life, I think it's really important to take care of yourself first Especially if you're a mom because you're like your kid will see that and learn to take care of themselves from there's I mean I could go on forever.

Lindsay 27:27

I know that I can have I know that our family can have a beautiful life with one child I know that And I know that our family could have a beautiful life with two children. Yeah. I, I do know that there's a, that, that's a possibility, but it's because I'm in the family presently, like with one child, I see it. You see the happiness. Yeah. I see that happening and that's why I feel more confident, like choosing that route.

Jordan 27:51

It's the known thing, right? You've grown around that. You've. I've done routines around that, like everything becomes maybe not perfectly comfortable because life with a toddler can not be described as perfectly comfortable, but at least you kind of, you're aware of what it's going to be like, but introducing that second kid. Yeah. It's another. It's kind of another mystery box to be opened for sure. Anyway, another thing that article said was, to not think of it as, as one on one time so much, but think of it as not fully, cause I think one on one time is still important, but to really also learn to value and prioritize. time with both of them where you can be doing things that they both enjoy like reading a book to both of them or Playing a game with both of them and obviously I grew up in a family with five kids So this is obvious to me and maybe not to somebody who's an only child, but those kids love to play with each =other Yes, It doesn't take away from. It doesn't have your presence, right? Both kids get that presence and you get the presence of your kids, you know, doubly. I think, yeah, I only have one kid. I would

Lindsay 28:54

imagine that you do, because I've been thinking about that too. Like you definitely like, it's so funny. Some, some, a lot of people are like, there's no way that your parents can. Love two children equally, they have to love your oldest more because the oldest, you know, that kind of thing. But parents really do. Yeah. Parents really do are like, it's really, truly like equally spread out, which is really cool. But one thing that comes to mind is I think I have mentioned, I have fear of the unknown on this podcast at least once, this is =definitely like bringing another child into the realm. Um, a successful pregnancy, a full term pregnancy, and birth and postpartum, like that all freaks me out and I'm just terrified that the tough moments are really going to be hard. But that's when you really rely on, on resources and your support system

Jordan 29:50

and whatever you possibly have at your disposal to rely on. Yeah, definitely. I

Lindsay 29:56

feel like I'd be reaching out for anything and everything just to like

Jordan 30:00

Help with that. Yeah. Do my laundry. Watch my kid. Yeah. Buy me groceries. Bang me dinner. Dude, there's so many things you can do for, yeah, a support. Yeah, we should write, we should do an episode of how to support someone in postpartum. Yeah.

Lindsay 30:13

Yeah, the book that we're kind of going through right now. Oh, yeah, of course. We're gonna talk about that next time Yeah, the book that I'm going through right now the fourth trimester. She's definitely got the author. She's got some great ideas Yeah of how to support. I love that. Just man. I miss the ball and read that book

Jordan 30:31

There's so much to think about yeah during pregnancy I wasn't thinking about what I was like, the fourth trimester is not like real, so I'm just going to focus on the trimester that I'm in and then take it day by day by day. And then you're thinking so much about labor and delivery too and prepping for that, that you don't pause too much to think about the postpartum period. Yeah. And also I think the part of the reason that's really hard when you, even when you do, because I did try when I was pregnant with my kid, I did try to think about the postpartum period quite a bit. And you know, I prepped food and blah, blah,

Lindsay 31:04

blah, blah, whatever. But

Jordan 31:07

you, you don't know what it's going to be like. So you don't know how to prepare for it. You don't know what kind of support you're going to want or need. Like, I kind of had this expectation that I was going to like let my house go to, like a disaster and it was going to be a huge mess and like I was going to be okay with it. But I did, I was like up and cleaning. Yeah. You know, like there were things I had, there were these expectations that I had and it was totally different.

Lindsay 31:29

Yes, absolutely. This conversation is just like back and forth. We're going to keep going back and forth. I'm ovulating early this cycle, so here we go. We're trying.

Jordan 31:44

Do you know what's another podcast episode that we need in the near future? Like how to, spoiler alert, me and Adrienne have also been trying, how to try. Oh yeah. Jesus.

Lindsay 31:57

Oh yeah. You mean like scheduling. I mean like, I

Jordan 32:00

mean like, how do you have sex, maybe some people are already having sex every day, but how do you have sex every single day, especially when you already have a kid? Um, and make it, engaging and interesting and not exhausting and keep it from feeling like a chore. I have

Lindsay 32:14

a cast on my arm. So you

Jordan 32:17

don't have to do much.

Lindsay 32:19

And I didn't do much the other night. Just in new into my cycle, not in the mood whatsoever with a cast. Here we go. Like what? But it's, it is what it is. Yeah.

Jordan 32:36

Yeah. There's gotta be a host of tips out there, but yeah, last time, the last time I was in the cycle, me and my husband were just like, uh,

Lindsay 32:47

it's gotta

Jordan 32:47

be so normal. Yeah. How? Like we're so tired, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Getting from a to Z is like, not, it feels, feels tricky. So yeah, maybe we'll talk if anyone else is like, can we talk about this? Yeah. We'll talk about that. I could talk about that for like half an episode for sure. Yeah. Oh, so what are some reasons? What are like the main reasons if you had to make a list of like five reasons why you wouldn't want to have a kid in those moments, you've definitely talked about like the difficulty of, of it all. Right. Mm hmm. And like how overwhelming that feels. What are some other reasons why you would maybe feel like no? Or is that the only one that you think of?

Lindsay 33:28

well, first and foremost, my postpartum depression, I feel like that would get worse or in my, I feel like I'm, I kicked postpartum anxiety like out. I just was done with that. I was not going to put myself in that high of anxiety. I just help myself such at a high standard that I won't be doing that again. I refuse. So, but I am afraid that like the demer would come back again. I would feel like a failure. I have like depressive moments if I didn't have the support. Those are kind of top traveling is really easy right now. I travel. Okay. So when we do travel in the country. My husband drives with our dog and I fly with my daughter. Yep.

Jordan 34:09

And you guys have

Lindsay 34:09

that system, system dialed and I would've, yeah. We have that system dialed. It works great for our family. I have a feeling that that's would be continuing for our family and that, that kind of daunts me a little bit. I feel pretty hesitant that that would be really hard. And with

Jordan 34:24

two kids. Yeah. Yeah. I can see that. And

Lindsay 34:26

that's probably gonna be hard for a while. Yeah. I would imagine like years and years of, of doing that. Mm. So that is kind of just like a, Ugh. Um, another one is obviously like, I, my mama heart hurts a little bit when you take away that time, that, that,

Jordan 34:42

that time with your, with your one child,

Lindsay 34:46

um, risking the miscarriage, another miscarriage. Yeah, again, definitely. And just with like the amount of time that goes in, that comes involved. Yeah, time

Jordan 34:55

and like, yeah. Yeah, with the dysregulation. Yeah, yes,

Lindsay 34:59

totally. Yeah, those are kind of like my top reasons, which I feel like are very normal and a lot of other mamas for sure probably feel But then there's also a lot of like positive

Jordan 35:11

reasons. Yeah, for sure. Before we get into those, uh, the reasons I, so I don't, I don't usually, uh, so we haven't talked, I haven't talked too much about this. I mean, my husband are pretty set on wanting to, and I think that because we made that decision early on and because I didn't struggle as much in postpartum, it's a little easier for me to avoid. I mean, it's not like we're trying to avoid these thoughts. They're natural. Yeah. It's just, they don't come up as much for me. So, but I do have, I totally have had them. Like I, I've caught myself in moments being like, Oh, if we have another kid, then this is going to be tricky. Or like the main example that I have is we went on a climbing trip down into the desert like a week or two ago, just before Adrian's surgery. And I realized that our van seats aren't going to fit two car seats. And I was like, yeah, shit. The whole reason we put the seat in the back, it's a double seat. Is for two kids. Yeah. But I wasn't thinking about fucking car seats. Like what the hell? And so I was like, oh shit, we have like not that much time to be taking advantage of going on these van trips that are so fun. And me and me and my kids sleep underneath the bed and then we've got our little setup and our systems dialed and the nap time works really well. And then I can get a decent amount of climbing in during the day. And when I imagined that life with a baby, a new baby as well, the whole thing just fell apart. I was like, we're not going to be, we will not be doing this. Like we could take trips still in just my car with both the car seats. We're not going to be able to just camp in the van. And camp, camping is harder with two tiny, tiny kids. So maybe we rent an Airbnb, but then that kind of feels just like a, I don't know, like traveling, doing climbing trips, coming back into my, my self, like becoming, you know, like having that identity, like as a rock climber who goes out all the time. It just like, you get pregnant with your first kid. You understand that your body's gonna go through a lot, and any kind of, like that you'd like to do or, you know, for me, it's rock climbing and yoga and all these things, mountain biking, skiing. I'm like, I can't, you know, you gotta give them up for a little bit and you're like, okay, that's fine. So you give them up for a bit, but right now where I'm at in life, I feel really strong. I feel like I'm in a place where I can get stronger. You know, I'm like gaining back that identity as. The person who does these things and the thought of becoming pregnant again pushes the like, yeah, pushes the retention of that identity. Way down the road into God knows where. It's so hard, yeah. Yeah, so for me, that's, that's like the main reason is like, there are, and there are a lot of things that feed back into that. So it's losing my body and my body's abilities. That's a huge one for me, like not being able to do like a simple, easy backbend and yoga for like almost a full year. And here's

Lindsay 38:01

the thing, people are going to be like, Oh, that'll come back, that'll come back. And I can tell you, it'll come back, you'll have time. But it's seriously hard. It's, it's personally hard to push that off further because you

Jordan 38:14

want that back. Yeah. And I just, and especially when you just feel like you got it back and it's so empowering and it's like fucking relieving and you feel like yourself. And then just to think about, yeah, it being doubly hard to get it back because you have two kids and you've got to like juggle the time and energy and shit. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So the other thing, obviously that. That you didn't mention is another reason that I've thought of is like finances. Oh, she has a great reason to put off having another kid or not have one. Kids are expensive. The world is expensive. Uh, maternity leave isn't something that we get, which is like a hot topic that I don't really want to get into right now, but, but like all of these kinds of reasons and yeah, we have some help and some support. Um, it's just

Lindsay 38:59

like buckling up for like the toughest years of your life. And it's really hard to like see. The light and the awesomeness at the end of those tough years. Totally. You have no idea how long those years

Jordan 39:15

are going to last. Yeah. And then you get into the years and, and like, you know, they're, they are so tough. They are the toughest. Like, I don't want to like say they're so easy, but in the moments where you're just like enjoying your child and feeling like that, the joy and happiness that they give you, this sounds so cliche. Holy shit. But it's true. Like you're like, Oh, I would do anything for this. Yes. So that's I know, I

Lindsay 39:36

know, you know,

Jordan 39:37

it's like the dichotomy just slaps you in the face again. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah So finances is a good reason if you don't feel stable I for me one of my one of my personal values one of the things that is most important to me is feeling stable and Secure and the thought of bringing another kid into the world just based on where we are financially alone Doesn't feel doesn't always feel stable and secure Um, even though we have so much privilege, I don't like, you know, I am like, sure,

Lindsay 40:05

this is your, your story or what you're going

Jordan 40:08

through. Totally. Yeah. I don't need anything lavish, but I do need to know I can pay my bills every month. Yeah, exactly. And it's scary to think about hospital bills and not working for maternity leave and all that shit. Yeah.

Lindsay 40:20

So there's this thing out there that, like, everyone's like, you'll never be prepared. Mm hmm. Which is semi, like, reassuring.

Jordan 40:29

Yeah, ironically reassuring.

Lindsay 40:32

Yeah. Yeah, I hear that a lot. Like, I heard that a lot from, people in my family and my friends that have had kids before me that you'll never be prepared.

Jordan 40:42

Meaning like, just go for it. Yeah. Yeah, it's tricky. So for me, those are the reasons. Yeah. Why I wouldn't is like just giving up my body again for a decent chunk of time. Not knowing when I'll like kind of get that body and the sense of identity that I get from feeling strong back. Um, and then yeah, finances. I, I don't have a lot of reasons for not having kids, like, as, as time goes on. Like, for me, the, the further I look down the road, the more I see reasons in favor of having two children.

Lindsay 41:15

Same. Same. Yeah. Like their future. Yeah, totally.

Jordan 41:19

Absolutely. Yeah, like, from kind of the moment that I bring a baby home. And introduce my daughter to them and see their rea like, her reaction, no matter what that is, you know, if it's like, I don't care, that'll be funny, and if it's like, oh, she's that sweet little baby who's like, going viral on the internet for the love she's giving her sibling, that'll be great too. Yeah, just watching them navigate life next to each other and be able to learn from each other and play with each other and kind of riff off each other and get into big, big trouble together. Yeah. Yeah. You know, come up with ideas together. I just feel like it's like another, a source of energy

Lindsay 41:58

almost. Yes. Right. And that is what I'm holding on to. When going for a number. Yeah. Definitely. Cause that, you're right, that energy is a big energy. And it's a lovely one, and it's an awesome one, and I'm gonna learn through it too.

Jordan 42:14

And you're going to get a break from it as well. Like I keep telling, I have friends who want only one kid and I totally respect that decision. Makes like, if that's what makes sense in your life, then that's awesome. We've given reasons. And I think one, one, yeah, the traveling thing never gets old. I'm sure there are lots of reasons. Throughout life to have only one kid mental health. Yeah. Yeah, I guess I said there kind of weren't but they're the same reasons We said do still make sense But for me having another kid means that my kid will have always have someone to play with I know I know a single child does have friends and stuff that can come over or whose houses they can go to but It's not like that constant like from the morning to the evening sure presence. So there's like a for me I feel like there would be a lot of Burden of entertainment almost like on my shoulders. I'd have to always make sure that the kid has something to get up to. But with a sibling, you kind of just don't have to even think about it. At least when I was growing up, my mom didn't have to put too much effort into like, okay, what are Jordan and her sister doing today? Like we kind of had it figured out by ourselves and we were going to action those plans. Yeah. You know, very independent from our parents, as independent from our parents as we could. And for me as a parent, that sounds really appealing because it allows them to have. You know, their imagination is doubled, their creativity could be doubled, their, you know, their independence, I don't know, they're just Gives

Lindsay 43:38

you also a slight like mental load break. Yeah, that's what I'm hoping. That's what I'm hoping. Yeah.

Jordan 43:46

Yeah, who knows how that'll actually play out. I might be like really biting my tongue when I'm Driving down the road after four hours in the car with two kids in the back fighting. I'm gonna be like, why did I think this was a good idea? Why? Oh, God. Yeah. Help me. And

Lindsay 44:02

also, too, it's interesting, parents are eventually become empty nesters. I mean, for the most part. Mm hmm. And then you start missing, like, your, your busy household. Yeah. You know, you hear about them missing their busy household and And they have another, like, way of life at that point in age.

Jordan 44:22

Yeah. Another thing I think of a lot is Becoming a burden for my kids to bear later in life, right? Oh, sure, sure. So, for me, Like, I split the responsibility of, I mean, my parents really aren't in need of care just yet. Mostly.

Lindsay 44:44

Your siblings are gonna listen to this and they're like, Uh,

Jordan 44:47

what are you talking about? No, no, no, no. We, I, my dad's going through some stuff right now that's really tough, but Um, in general, he can care for himself, but yeah, so, so they're not really at that point yet. But it's really comforting for me as an adult to know that when that time comes, that they do need more care and attention and everything there, this, the burden of responsibility will be split between five people in my dad's case, six people, because there are a lot of us, so I don't have to do a hundred percent of the, of the work there. I have some friends who are. Married and they're both only children. So they're responsible for all of their parents I mean they're not in they're not in a position where they're having to care for them yet But the but if it comes to that, yeah, it's on them. Yeah, that's tricky man.

Lindsay 45:39

Yeah, you're thinking about like the Yeah,

Jordan 45:44

I want them to feel like they have support from someone else who totally understands them and totally understands me and Adrienne when we're older. I want them to be able to still have each other when we've gone. You know, like, I mean, maybe they'll have their own families and it's totally possible to find like, you know, your adult chosen family too. There's definitely something to be said for that. But yeah, I think for me, just like, for them to have each other, and watching like, me and my siblings grow up, and watching Adrian and his sister being so close in adult life, it just feels, feels really val those relationships feel really valuable in a way that friendships. It just, it's, it just doesn't really kind, it just doesn't really compare to a friendship. It's just different. Yes. It's not like it's way better than a friendship could be or, you know, worse or anything. It just is, it's a different type of relationship. And I want my kids to be able to have that,

Lindsay 46:35

yeah, yeah, that helps that helps me on my yes days for sure

Jordan 46:41

Thinking deep into the future. Yeah. And then also like as a parent, I was going to say this too, and I totally forgot till just now, as a parent, it also like, I think when you said the empty nesters thing, you get kind of lonely and you miss your kids. You're not, you're not waiting for just one kid to give you their time. You have two kids, so you can kind of like dip into the time because when they're adults and they're in their, like, you know, twenties, thirties, forties, they're going to be busy with their stuff and they're not going to have all the time for you that you want them to. So having two means that you get more of their time, which is, yeah,

Lindsay 47:12

it was definitely taking him into that and loving that right now. Yeah. I love going to Detroit. They love coming out here. They love traveling in between, you know, they're really in the whole retirement. But also loving every with every part of it. Yeah,

Jordan 47:29

and you just get to see Someone develop from infancy to adulthood twice ideally, you know, like yeah. Yeah a best case scenario all things go well I know shit happens. But yeah, that's cool. Like that's just really cool. I don't know. I love that process so far My kids only one and a half There will probably be days when I don't love it as

Lindsay 47:51

much

Jordan 47:53

But I just find it really exciting. I don't know. I just, I think I really, yeah, I just love being a parent and doing it twice feels fun and exciting. Yeah,

Lindsay 48:03

that's awesome. Yeah. I hope that you, my wish for you is like just to keep that going and like always remind yourself on the tough days. Yeah.

Jordan 48:13

Cause those days do come, it sounds all like flowers though, I'm talking about it. The tough times definitely do come. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay 48:19

But as of today, I am trying for number two. Okay. As of

Jordan 48:26

today. Okay. Yes. So it's a yes. Yes. It's

Lindsay 48:30

a yes. It's a yes. And I want that energy. For now. Yeah. And I want that energy to be had. When my husband and I are intimate and like, that's our plan as of right now. I'm hoping just to get through like the tough, like days, like, and that's where I reach out for support, which is good and reach out for the little reassurance and the good stuff. Yeah. That's just like, that's my, uh, big old to do list on those days. Ask for help. Yes. Yeah.

Jordan 48:59

Yeah, and more on that

Lindsay 49:01

next time. Uh huh, yeah. We'll definitely dive into the fourth trimester. Yeah. Man, I wish I had

Jordan 49:08

the book before. Yeah, I can't wait to get into it. Can't wait to get into it. Yeah, that's our book club book for those of you who don't remember or didn't hear our last episode. We'll be coming back in a handful of episodes once I've finished it to talk about, yeah, to talk about The Fourth Trimester

Lindsay 49:25

book. Yes, The Fourth Trimester by Kimberly Ann Johnson. So we, speaking of a little bit of like postpartum woes, my hair went through the trenches of postpartum, like crazy hair loss all at once. And now it's coming back like curlier than normal. Like I got lots of dark too. Yeah. Yeah for a while It's like frizzier and then I also kind of experienced what Carrie Locker it has been experienced lately She's a fun like social mom that we've talked about on here before but it's like the dry Scalp like flaky gross dandruff dry and then greasy like roots To mid and then really dry ends. It's a very interesting thing. Like it's like How could your hair be greasy when it's so like your scalp is so dry. So This is like a whole postpartum thing. And I think it has something to do with hormones Well, obviously probably does but something that's trending in the postpartum hair world is a scalp scrub Scalp scrub. And that's not necessarily like somebody like scrubbing your scalp with their hands like when you go Oh, that does sound nice. Like, yeah. Not like a, like going to the hair salon and somebody like really scrubbing with their shampoo. Not like that. This is like a physical scrub that you can buy, like kind of like a body scrub. Oh yeah. Or you could make from like recipes on Pinterest. Or a chemical scrub. Which is something that's like a chemical scrub. Think of like

Jordan 51:03

a chemical peel. Yeah. Yes.

Lindsay 51:06

Yes. And then you can use like apple cider vinegar, essentially. Would that be a chemical scrub?

Jordan 51:10

Yes. Oh, yeah.

Lindsay 51:12

Okay. So I took it upon myself to dive into what a scalp scrub was because as a millennial, I'm like, what the hell is that? Like, is it like I'm, my mind is thinking like the body scrub, like the physical stuff. Can you do that for your hair? I've never even like seen that for your hair before. Yeah. Nothing like an exfoliator. Yeah. Um, never had seen that ever in my life, and then I went on, so I go on YouTube to like, what is that? Like, how do you do that? You know, all the, all the things. And so, I, I did look up, there's two different kinds. Like I mentioned, physical scrub, there's like these cleansing, purifying scalp scrubs that you do. before your

Jordan 51:49

hair wash. So does it have like little bits in, like the salty, sugary,

Lindsay 51:53

granular? Yeah, just like a, like a physical exfoliating thing that you can put in

Jordan 51:59

your hair. And it doesn't mess with like the, I almost said stem, but like the lengths of your hair? It does not. The

Lindsay 52:06

stock. What's it called? The strand. Strand?

Jordan 52:11

That's, yep. That's the one. The stock. Oh, God. Okay. Your hair

Lindsay 52:17

stocks. Yeah. Yeah. No, it does not. You just basic, you don't be running this stuff through your entire head of hair. Like, you just kind of rub it and scratch it and whatever on your scalp. Let it sit for a little bit, wash it, double cleanse, and then moisturize like usual. Double cleanse like with shampoo. Yeah. Yeah. the idea is to just condition like from mid line down. Mm hmm. So that's one, and then the chemical scrub is something I tried and I found significant help with it. Good. So I bought these plastic bottles that you screw on, and the screw on top is like a comb that has holes in it, so like whatever solution you would put, like a lot of, you may have seen like at home hair dye kits probably have something like this, but like you can put treatment in there and like comb it through your hair. So I did one tablespoon of apple cider vinegar, two tablespoons of water. And what I did was I mixed that up in that little plastic bottle, screwed on this like comb cap and brushed it through my scalp. Not like through my entire hair, head of hair, just on my scalp. All that apple cider vinegar and then you let it sit for 15 minutes because that stuff is chemically like hurt your skin. Yeah. Yeah. But it helped so much with balancing the pH of my skin. Wild. That's cool. Yeah. But there's something you need to be careful about. Apple cider vinegar is like, you don't want to be out in the sun, right? After having Friar. Oh, so you gotta be like wearing a hat or like, maybe like make sure you're scheduling that like on like a cloudy day. And then go out, you know, if you're going to do it again, make sure like the next following day is like a forecasted sketch, you know, forecasted cloudy day or whatever. If you have to be outside, but. So, but you

Jordan 54:03

wash it, so you wash it off. Yeah. Yeah. And then you still have to be aware of going outside. Oh,

Lindsay 54:09

interesting. So you let, I let that sit for 15 minutes in my hair. Then I did the double cleanse and then I conditioned like mid light and down. And then I still had to wait to be in the sun kind of like 24 to 48 hours. Yeah. Your skin's just sensitive from that like chemical stuff on it. Yeah. Makes sense. But you can buy products or you can like easily make something on Pinterest, which is reassuring. Which is something I mean, apple

Jordan 54:31

cider vinegar is something most people just have. Yeah, yeah. And it's cheap. Yes, it is. Because most hair care products are not cheap. No,

Lindsay 54:37

but that worked out for me pretty well. Yeah. Scalp scrub. Nice. That's trending.

Jordan 54:43

Love that. I wonder if it's good for your scalp even if it isn't like dry.

Lindsay 54:46

My, it could be. I mean, if you have like, if you, if you're somebody that uses like a lot of products, yeah. On your hair. I would imagine it's really good. Like purifying. Yeah. Yeah.

Jordan 54:56

Clarifying. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Scalp scrub. Trending. Trending now. Alright, so then finally our last thing is um, our rec and then we'll be wrapping it up. Yeah. Little recommendation. I think I might have a theme to my recommendations. Oh, right. Uh, it seems to be like, things that you have around the house that your kid's gonna really like, and you don't have to buy a toy for them. So the other day, I try to get my kid outside for an hour every day while the weather's kind of still on the fence. we'll hopefully be doing more than that when it's even a little bit warmer outside, but we've been doing an hour a day. And it's kind of hard to keep her, like, entertained as a little toddler because she's kind of too young to, like, kick a ball around, though sometimes that works. Oh, sure. You know, like, so what do we do? She found one day, just on her own, we had the garage door open and she had, there's like a little white bucket, like maybe a two or three gallon bucket in our garage. And she became obsessed with it. It's just like a normal little like a paint bucket, like just a bucket, like a white plastic bucket. And she carries that thing around the whole time we're outside. She'll find rocks and put them in her bucket and then she'll like dump them all out and she'll put them back in and count them. She likes it so much that we took it with us when we went down to the desert to climb because it was like, oh that's perfect. It'll keep her occupied at the crack like no problem. Oh that's adorable. And it did, yeah, she loves it. So Yeah, if you, yeah, so if you need a little activity to do with your toddler and you want to go outside or even inside works too, get them a little bucket or even a bowl or something and see what their little mind comes up with to do with it because it's, it's pretty fun. Yeah. And then she'll carry it around and be like, Oh, heavy. Yeah. If it's full of rocks or, you

Lindsay 56:40

know, I just like started watering. I watered our succulents today and inside our house. And my daughter saw that watering can and it's now in her hand, like all day long. And it's like, that's going to have to come outside with us.

Jordan 56:55

Yeah. So she can actually use it. Yeah. Yeah. It's cool. It can teach them about like containment. Oh, so many games. And like weight and. Yeah.

Lindsay 57:03

Yeah. Like, yeah. Go collect like rocks only. You can make games out of that. Yeah. There's a book called Play the Forest Schoolway.

Jordan 57:10

Play the Four? Forest School Way. Play the Forest School Way.

Lindsay 57:16

Yes, it is called that. Play the Forest School Way. And it's really unique and really cute. So that, I wanted to get you guys that book. Oh, cute. I'd love it. Yeah. So I'll be getting that. Um, but it's, there's one, there's one in there where you take like a strong stick, like a pretty decent sized stick and you can wrap like burlap around it. Oh, cool. And then they can like go on a walk and they can collect the feather.

Jordan 57:41

Oh, that's cool. Oh, that's cute. So I've seen something similar where you like put tape around their wrist and like sticky side out and they can stick stuff on it. That's cute

Lindsay 57:53

Yeah, so this is like a book that kind of reminds me of what you're saying. Yeah, cool finding stuff that's outside already Making fun games out of it. Yeah, that's adorable. That's kind of smart You got her a little bucket right now because Easter's coming up you guys collect eggs or whatever do it like

Jordan 58:11

Easter egg hunt. Oh my god, fun. Yeah, I didn't even think

Lindsay 58:14

about that. So like she's like

Jordan 58:17

Gonna be ready. Oh, yeah. She'll be way ready. Oh, cute. I can't wait. You're so funny. All right. Yep. That's my recommendation. Cool. We can wrap this up now. Thanks for sitting with us through this conversation and all of its ins and outs and emotions. Have

Lindsay 58:33

these conversations back and forth with your spouse. Yeah. Don't feel hesitant. They're obviously on it.

Jordan 58:38

That's such good advice. Yeah. I'm so

Lindsay 58:40

glad you said that. My husband's been on a different page than I have been. But at the same time, he is grateful for me sharing. I hope he is. Or he's probably like, what? No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't

Jordan 58:54

work it. No, it's important for you both to obviously know where the other person's at, especially if you're not on the same page. Yes.

Lindsay 59:01

Yeah, definitely talk about it. Talk about it. Chit chat about it. I'm probably going to find gone through miscarriages and they're just kind of having the hard times of Having another kid or wanting or thinking, yeah, yeah, totally. I'll be fine. Something like that for myself.

Jordan 59:14

So in the meantime, good luck trying.

Lindsay 59:17

Thank you. Cast and all. Something to laugh back on.

Jordan 59:27

Oh God. All right. Thanks Instagram at we have kids podcast. Instagram. Is there something else on the plug? Rate, re scribe, and review. Re scribe? No. How do they say

Lindsay 59:39

it? Rate, subscribe, and review.

Jordan 59:42

Yes. If you want to. Yeah. Yeah. We'd like that. Yeah. Yeah. Be our

Lindsay 59:47

mom friend.

Jordan 59:49

Thanks so much. Bye. We'll see you next time. Later.