Lindsay 0:00

you may be asking yourself, what the actual hell is this? And why do I still have this? Do I have too much on my plate? Why can't I come up with simple words to say? Will

Jordan 0:10

I ever be able to think straight ever again? Is this forever? And we're on. Hi, Lindsay. What's up, Jordan? I think I'm going to call you Lindsay every time we open this up. Get that spelling right. Yeah. Get it right. Hi, everybody. Welcome. This is, the We Have Kids podcast. Yeah. We have

Lindsay 0:37

kids. We've been gone for a hot minute.

Jordan 0:40

YEah, it's been a while since

Lindsay 0:41

we recorded. You can't tell, I'm sure the listeners can't tell we've been gone. No. But we have been gone.

Jordan 0:47

Yeah, it's been a couple of weeks. A crazy couple of pre holiday season weeks. Yeah. I was on vacation. Me and my family went to Mexico. Down to Todos Santos. Kind of like on the bottom of Baja California. It was good. It was interesting.

Lindsay 1:06

I've been to Mexico once and that was last March. My daughter was only three months old. I left her behind. That was wild, tough, but carry on. Tell me about your

Jordan 1:18

Mexico. I mean, you've got everyone on the hook now leaving.

Lindsay 1:23

I'll just add that the first ;=night\ |that I was there. Making all of a sudden making this all about me, but I swear I'm not I'll just add one thing because it's funny the first night I was there I Woke up in the middle of the night looking for her. Oh my mom brain was all like in routine paying, you know, your, your brain's just paying attention to your child when yeah. And yeah, woke up in the middle of the night looking for, I remember waking up when I was looking all over the room being like, where's baby, where's my baby, where's baby? And then I remember standing and holding my head and being like. Wow. Okay. And then I slept like a queen the rest of the time. Oh,

Jordan 2:14

That's incredible. Yeah. Tell me about your. I feel like everyone should just really quickly know also what a hero you are for having pumped the whole time you were in Mexico

Lindsay 2:25

because

Jordan 2:25

Jesus, every three hours. Yeah. That's why. And just like, \bear in mind, everybody, I'm about to talk about how tricky it was to have a one year old in a country. Where there isn't like tap water that you're supposed to drink. Lindsay pumped in this country where you're not supposed to drink the tap water, which means you can't wash any of the pump parts with anything but bottled water. I was

Lindsay 2:46

very, I was very strategic. Yeah. Yeah. Is every three hours. I will say that beer helped beer helped me produce more unless I felt more relaxed too. I don't know. Yeah. It probably was a combination of both, but I. Was asking for bottled water all the time and I was asking for ten to ten to a dozen bottles at a time They were like what's going on? And I'm like I have they I gave him the whole Spiel because I asked for a freezer the concierge Cafeteria area of the resort for them to hold and they did that for me So they understood why I was asking for so much water. But yeah, I had I brought my What are those little things that you boil on top of like a, Oh, a kettle. Yeah. I brought my,

Jordan 3:37

normally

Lindsay 3:40

I don't have something like that, so I bought it just for this trip and I brought like a, foldable sink. you know, like a 12 by 12 sink and it collapsed and collapsed and then I brought my kettle with and I boiled all of the bottled water, did the whole thing. So every three hours, everyone, every three hours got who, who gets up in the middle of the night on vacation in Mexico at 12, it was like 1230 I was setting my alarm. That's wild. It's wild. To pump.

Jordan 4:11

It doesn't sound very relaxing, but. I'm glad you had a good time. I hope you had a good time. Yeah, I did. I did. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's wild. Yeah, I can't imagine. And yeah, having a one year old, I mean, she did great. She did really great. And she loved, the beach, which was super fun. Oh, we don't have a beach super close by here. She had been to a California beach. Oh, sure. How old was she? I don't know. Maybe she was nine or ten months long. But yeah, she loved that. But for me, like our Airbnb was not childproof in any capacity and I was just chasing her around with concrete steps just everywhere. Yeah. I, I, I think I held her more in that week than I have held her in the last. Three months combined?

Lindsay 4:59

Oh

Jordan 4:59

my gosh. I imagine. Yeah, I got some muscles from that trip. Anyway, we can talk more about that when we might do um, a little travel episode in the next few. Yeah. I'm traveling soon. Because Lindsay's actually taking her kiddo.

Lindsay 5:10

Mm hmm. Her and I are going to Detroit soon. Yeah. We're spending the holiday with family. we normally host Christmas out here in Utah but this year our family they have a new house and they're excited to host. So we're going there. So my daughter and I are flying out of here. Yeah. Fun. Yeah. It'll be interesting because she's a year old. The last time I flew with her was, well, I flew with her in the summer a lot. She was like six to seven months age. So it was a great age for her to travel because she slept really well and she didn't need to be stimulated every 30 seconds. And she wasn't walking. Yeah, not walking, not as mobile. I mean. But this time around I'm a little nervous she'll be a year old, but, and

Jordan 5:53

she just took her first steps. Yeah. Yesterday everybody,

Lindsay 5:57

she turns one years old next week and we borrowed a cute little shopping cart from you and she practiced and did wonderful with that all over the house. And then the next day she walked. Yeah, that's like clearly she needed that.

Jordan 6:14

Yeah Yeah, so we'll get back to you with some travel tips and all of the insight. Yeah, that will be a fun episode. Yeah, it's a lot. It is a lot traveling with a kid, but it is Like it's I don't know. It's not It is hard, but it's also not so hard. I mean once you're used to kind of like Corralling your kid just generally kind of can do it anywhere.

Lindsay 6:36

I yeah, it's so interesting too because was born in the 80s and I was not like In an airport often. I think the first time I ever entered an airport I was 10 to 12. That was the first time I ever, and we're already exposing our kids to the airport and travel. Yeah, isn't

Jordan 6:52

that crazy to think about? Yeah, I didn't fly either until I was probably, yeah, I was probably around 10. I didn't go on, I think I went once in a plane when I was little and then didn't go again until I was like 18. Yeah, so it should be interesting to see. How that

Lindsay 7:07

molds them in some way. Yeah,

Jordan 7:09

yeah. Cause we'll definitely do a lot of traveling. She's, I mean we can talk about this more maybe in the next episode, but her grandparents live in the UK. So we've already been over there once and I'm sure we'll continue to go back. Cause we love those guys, we Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Well, anyway, we'll get into the meat of our podcast. Lindsay's got a fun topic, uh, a relatable topic for me today.

Lindsay 7:35

Mind you, I, this, this definitely affects me a handful of times a day. I know it affects you a handful of times a day, It is called MomBrain.

Jordan 7:45

Have you heard of it? Have you guys heard of this?

Lindsay 7:49

Who here has MomBrain? Is it just me

Jordan 7:52

and Jordan? I hear

Lindsay 7:55

you. Somehow I doubt it. So, who has mom brain? Don't all raise your hands at the same time. Um, but, um, if anyone's heard of mom brain, you may be asking yourself, what the actual hell is this? And why do I still have this? Do I have too much on my plate? Why can't I come up with simple words to say? Will

Jordan 8:18

I ever be able to think straight ever again? Is this forever?

Lindsay 8:22

Why do I still have this a year, like a well into a year? After having my child, is this even recoverable? Yeah. Like what you're saying, um, why does my husband look at me like a deer at the headlights when I can't? Like, when I can't, like, respond and he's just waiting for an answer, I just, like, stare in the blank. When I talk to you on the phone sometimes, you know, I'm just so grateful that you totally understand. Absolutely. Just, like, a blank

Jordan 8:55

space. Yeah, we'll be doing Marco Polo's and there'll be just, like, a ten second break where we're just sat there staring at him. I was going to say something else for sure, so just hang on.

Lindsay 9:07

So mom brain is a big thing that's in our lives since having our children. I'm going to be talking about what it is. What the cause of it is There's also some really cool positive things that are coming out of this mom brain your brain changes in positive ways as well Which is really like reassuring. It

Jordan 9:25

is because it's kind of hard to see those positive changes

Lindsay 9:29

Yes, so mind you We're just gonna dive right into this. Oh, and I also have some really cool like tips and coping ways too. Um, but first and foremost, mom brain. Is a term, well, it's a phrase, it's a phrase, it's, and it's kind of like a phrase in a joking way, if you will. It's unfortunate that it's just out there and like kind of a negative undertone. But, um, mom brain is a phrase used to refer to the cognitive changes that a mother can experience during pregnancy and after giving birth. Um, and obviously when we say after giving birth, that means like an extended time through postpartum. Um, and those are, uh, changes that are, that like our feelings of being less focused during conversations, which I think laughing laughing, but in all seriousness, it's less sharp with vocabulary. Yep. A general overall decrease in mental energy, of course, and then also executive functioning, like you're planning and organizing and maintaining attention during conversations. Um, all of that's affected And so obviously these are things that clearly happened to me in a handful of times, if not more in a good 24 hour period of time, and then it's like all week long too, all month long and then all year long, it just keeps

Jordan 11:01

going and going, going, going, yeah.

Lindsay 11:04

Yep. So. Mommy brain or slash mom brain definitely has kind of like a negative undertone to it because when you are talking about it you're like oh you have mom brain or it's like you're frustrated that you can't remember things you're frustrated you can't come up with like the simplest words you're frustrated that your attention span is you know affected it's frustrating totally so obviously the brain goes under some significant changes during pregnancy in the postpartum period. Uh, several areas of your brain, like your hypothalamus, your amygdala, your hippocampus, they're all impacted. And then there are, evidence That suggests during pregnancy women experience a decrease in brain volume in like areas for verbal memory. So this is all like an actual thing. So it's

Jordan 11:54

not just like I didn't get enough sleep last night. My mental load is insane and I literally can't fill my brain with any more.

Lindsay 12:01

It's like all of that. It's all of what you're saying and actual brain changes. Big thing going on here. And it like, for that, all that to be happening to like the sole provider of your child, that's so hard. It's intense. Yeah. Yeah. And you just, you wish you'd had none of these changes going on, but there's some good, changes too. Yeah. They're believed to be adaptive since they aid mothers in responding to their infant's cues. So even though you feel like you're losing your, your verbal memory, you feel like you're losing like attention span, your brain is also growing in sense that you're Responding to your child with their cues, such as crying, such as, or maybe fussiness, like you're in tune so much more to that, which is kind of a cool way of like, your brain is gaining a way of how to nurture. Yeah, so basically all the research that I found was just there's less gray matter. Yeah, okay. And then there's more, but there's more Like there's more research on the positive things that, well, that's

Jordan 13:09

good. Cause that's not always the case.

Lindsay 13:11

Right. That's what, when I came across this, I was like, what? And then I went on further and it was just like, but moms are gaining this. Moms are getting this. Mom's are getting this. So I was like, this is impressive because I were out here in public are talking about all like the negative. Yeah. But there's like, it's nice to see that there's a ton of articles about it going in more of a positive. Yeah. How

Jordan 13:32

refreshing that the research is actually focusing on the things that are beneficial. I feel like that's something that we miss a lot in science. We're just always looking at like, The things that are creating problems. Yeah, and it's nice to see things that are adaptive, positive.

Lindsay 13:46

All those changes of your brain are speculated from hormonal like changes. Oh, wow. So increased hormonal change in estrogen, oxytocin, and prolactin right after birth are so significant. To respond to your baby? Yeah. That that becomes more prominent than anything like That it's just like

14:05

that

Jordan 14:06

takes over your whole brain, basically. I mean, not obviously your whole brain, but

Lindsay 14:12

Which makes me wonder, like, of all mammals, if it's like that.

Jordan 14:16

Probably, I mean, all mammals would have prolactin. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. And I'm assuming they'll all have oxytocin. I mean, I know like they've done studies on like Yeah. Naked moats or voles or something that Mm-Hmm. have lots of oxytocin. Yeah. I don't remember what I'm talking about. Nobody quote me on that. Yeah. So interesting. But yeah, I would think like that would make sense. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. Wild. It's crazy that hormones can change our brain that much. Like it's crazy the effect hormones have on our body generally. Yeah, it's wild. Uh

Lindsay 14:47

huh. Yeah, that's cool It's so different too because like when you put stuff in your mouth and you like feel those changes Digestively you actually like can understand What do you mean? Like, when you eat, like, say, like, a really spicy, like, piece of pizza. Oh, sure. You feel those changes because you're actually putting that, like, spicy, you see it. Yeah, you feel

Jordan 15:08

the physiological changes in your body, like, immediately?

Lindsay 15:10

Yeah. Is that hormonal? I don't know. I don't know. I don't think that's hormonal. But, like, what I'm saying is, like, it's so interesting because you see that and you put it in and then you understand the response, but, like, hormones you don't necessarily see. Yeah, yeah. Totally. And you're going through this whole thing, like, blindly.

Jordan 15:26

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I totally get what you mean now. Like, you're comparing it to like, other physiological changes that are more abrupt and just really obvious. Yeah. Yeah, no, I get that. I mean sometimes my hormonal changes feel, I mean they never feel abrupt but sometimes they're sometimes they're obvious. You're like, whoa, sorry husband, sorry about that one.

Lindsay 15:53

Some of the memes out there are so on

Jordan 15:55

point too. Yeah, that's great. We'll have to find some and post them. Yeah, keep your eyes peeled for

Lindsay 16:03

that. Okay. Yeah, so there was this article I came across, uh, from the American Psychological Association. It was led by neuroscientists and, uh, they did a study of 19 women. 10 of them who had boys and 9 of them who had girls. Um, just to understand if maybe having one sex versus the other had different changes in the brain of the mom. but it was speculated that there weren't significant changes between boy and girl mom. They were just changes in general from the mom. Um, so. Between the two sexes, there was not much difference. It's speculated that the increased hormonal change in estrogen, oxytocin, and prolactin after birth Helped make the mother's brains more susceptible to reshaping in the response to their children So this is what motivated them to take care of their baby It gave them general traits of like motherhood in general I wonder what that means like general traits of motherhood. Yeah, I would imagine maybe like

Jordan 17:07

Feeding like responsiveness

Lindsay 17:11

Nurturing yeah that would be a great thing to ponder. Like, what does that exactly?

Jordan 17:17

Yeah. How do they measure that one? Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay 17:19

Because there's traits of like fatherhood too. I mean,

Jordan 17:25

yeah, I mean, this is a whole different conversation, but like, uh, yeah, motherhood and fatherhood shouldn't be too disparate. Like they can't, they shouldn't be too dissimilar. I wouldn't think, especially not straight out the gate. Like, yeah, I don't know. Don't come at me, but I, yeah. I just feel like dads are nurturing

Lindsay 17:45

too. Exactly. Like my husband significantly became more nurturing when we after our daughter arrived.

Jordan 17:52

Yeah, for sure. He did my my mind did too. Yeah. He's like a total

Lindsay 17:56

student. But then it was like a natural thing too. Yeah. It wasn't like a forced upon him. Interesting. It was a natural like change

Jordan 18:02

that happened to fodder for its own episode maybe. Yeah. It'd be

Lindsay 18:06

a good one. Yeah. Stay tuned. Yes. So these affected areas that support maternal motivation, um, the hypothalamus, the reward for emotion processing. It's from your amygdala emotions, you know, all the emotions. I

Jordan 18:23

kind of get where this is going. So this is thinking, this is going to be things like, um, the oxytocin that you get when you have a letdown and stuff like that. Sure. Yeah. Like that we talked about in the other episode.

Lindsay 18:34

Yeah. Sensory integration would be from like your parietal lobe reasoning and judgment prefrontal cortex, which I almost could feel that.

Jordan 18:44

Yeah. Good. Yeah. There are some changes

Lindsay 18:48

there. Yeah. You're reasoning for judgment. I mean, think about it too. Like when you have a child your first baby, especially those Judgments that you're making for that child. You've never done in your entire life No, and all of a sudden you're kind of like What did you next and what how to help your baby in whatever they're going through?

Jordan 19:12

I can see. It's probably some things like, um, the way your nervous system reacts when you hear your baby crying, which by the way, like baffled me. I had no. I mean, I'd obviously heard tons of babies cry in my lifetime, but until I had my kid, I was like, I was so unprepared for just the like jolt. Yes. Like my, I feel my nervous system like sparking, just like on fire when she cried. Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay 19:37

Is. Yeah. Yeah, like your sense of nurture just explodes

Jordan 19:40

Yeah,

Lindsay 19:41

Yeah, so there's obviously I think it's rather than focusing on like the negative undertone of mom brain I think it's really good to focus to and and we should acknowledge like all the positive Changes that women are experiencing to help aid them and caring for their offspring Absolutely Which is So reassuring. Yeah, it is reassuring. when I came across like these articles, I was, you know, I have researched what is mom brain before because I heard about it, experiencing it. Oh, how's this going to affect me the rest of my life? But coming across these articles that have a lot of positive, information about your brain. Growing in areas that change you as a, parent is, was very reassuring. that's so cool. Yeah. But I was still, I'm still curious, you know, every once in a while, figuring out like how to cope, how do I cope with this? How do I get this? Like maybe, Better? Does this get worse if I have more children?

Jordan 20:42

I've heard that. I had a, I had a lady at work once tell me that she joked that she lost 5 percent of her brain with each kid she had. And I was like, please don't say that. It can't get worse than this for me. I won't be able to function. Please.

Lindsay 20:57

Oh man. Yeah, we've only had, you and I have only had one child, so we're not, like, we don't know if it gets worse, but if other moms are telling us that it gets worse.

Jordan 21:07

Buckle up.

Lindsay 21:09

It is true though. It's true. You're like strapping to this rocket. That's about to go into space, outer

Jordan 21:17

space of parenthood. It's a rollercoaster ride. That's for sure.

Lindsay 21:22

So yeah, first and foremost, if you are feeling like you can't Get it under control, you know, if you don't want to hear tips and figure out how to cope at all and you just want to figure it out, there's obviously help out there. Seek a therapist, seek, your healthcare provider, talk to them about what's going on. What you need because you deserve to thrive totally as well

Jordan 21:52

and maybe there's like something Missing like last time we talked about self care and maybe you're like feeling overwhelmed because you're spending too much time at home or you're not getting enough help or your mental load truly is like a lot of times when I feel like my mom brains just Like rattling like crazy. It's because I feel didn't have a clue break maybe. Yeah, I feel overwhelmed maybe with the load that I'm carrying whether that's going to work and having too many hours at work or, uh, just You know, having too many house chores, like it could be the smallest thing. Um, but yeah, little things like that probably could be helped with what you're talking

Lindsay 22:26

about. Yeah. I've noticed that I'm affected when I don't sleep well.

Jordan 22:31

Yeah. Do you think?

Lindsay 22:37

And then I think about like the times, like when she was like brand, you know, first, like

Jordan 22:42

a week or two home, like how did I actually go through the day? Yeah. Yeah. The fuzz. Yeah. Dude, the fuzz. Yeah. Oh my god. And then, and like the random, hopefully for you they're random, for us it was like a little bit random, like nights where your kid wakes up every two hours or more and you're like, I literally haven't slept for more than an hour and a half stretch. Yeah. I cannot. Think, like, how am I going to make breakfast for myself? Like, I don't even know how to go about that right now.

Lindsay 23:11

The amount of muffins I went through. Emergency. Yeah, I had a lot of emergency muffins in the freezer. Smart. That's smart. Okay, so let's chat a little bit about how to cope through this because. I don't know about you, but I'm the type of person that, like, wants to just figure out, like, what are the things that I can do, and remind myself when I'm going through mom brain episodes or mom brain days. we were just talking about giving yourself a break. It's like the number one thing to do is give yourself a break if you can. So being a mom can be a lot of pressure and if you're feeling less focused or in that space of brain fog and, uh, and whatnot, it can be really tempting to be hard on yourself as well. Yeah. Especially when you're like, you're, you're just like, when you're forgetting, you're like, I don't remember why am I doing this? Like that's being hard on yourself. So. Try not to criticize yourself. allow the mom brain to happen, but yet give yourself a break. Whether that be figuring something out with your partner, family, or friends. If you have another person that can, like, help you with child care, you have to figure out how to have a break. remembering that this is like somewhat of a temporary stage. It may not feel temporary because like I said, Jordan and I are, you're past a year. I'm, I'm coming up on a year and it's. still like doesn't feel temporary. Um, but adjusting to motherhood is the change. And that's where I feel like you just always remind yourself to keep yourself a break. No matter what I'm keeping a notebook handy to do lists. I don't know what you remember.

Jordan 24:56

I have to write down. Yes. Like text my husband back, like everything.

Lindsay 25:02

If I come up with a thought, there's no way, this is not a time to rely on mental lists. You, I have to write it down. And that can be anything from like groceries or like you mentioned, like remember to text your husband. I definitely am writing the same, same, similar things down. Like call Andrew at 1 p. m. Setting that alarm as well on my phone. Yeah. Focusing on positives and incorporate that into your notes as well. Oh, I love that. Yeah. So this was kind of a cool one where you could almost write positive affirmations on your notes. Like if you're writing a list. Yeah.

Jordan 25:40

Something nice. Yeah. Yeah. Like that. Yeah.

Lindsay 25:43

Like you're taking care of your future self. Yeah. Something, something along those lines. GeT extra sleep when you can slash rest.

Jordan 25:52

Yeah. I S I'm not great at this one. I mean, I get, I love sleep and I S and I sleep actually a lot better than you do at least. Like, yeah, I don't deal with the insomnia part, but like, yeah, the rest thing is hard, but it does feel really good when I finally just like surrender to it. Yeah. Definitely.

Lindsay 26:12

It's a fast paced world. And when you're a mom, it really is hard in general to find rest. Yeah, I do.

Jordan 26:17

It's like

Lindsay 26:18

impossible. They have that thing out there where it's like sleep when the baby sleeps. I did do that for a while. Yeah, a long time. But like, at the same time, there's so much that needs to get done when your baby is sleeping. Yeah, it's

Jordan 26:34

the only time I get to myself, period. Yeah. So I can either sleep, which sometimes I do need to do. But more often, it's like I'm cleaning.

Lindsay 26:42

Yeah, you're setting yourself up for the rest of your day. Yeah, totally. Or the rest of your week by like maybe meal prepping too. You're just trying to help yourself out. Yeah. You're like missing that rest time.

Jordan 26:56

Totally. And I'll throw some yoga in there and like call that my rest, which isn't really rest. I mean, it can be restful, but yeah, it's not good enough. Yeah.

Lindsay 27:06

Rest to me is like, I have to be like laying down in my bed.

Jordan 27:10

Oh yeah. That sounds good.

Lindsay 27:21

Let's see, exercising your brain. This is interesting because you wouldn't think that having episodes of mom brain. Obviously, you would maybe need to rest because you're feeling overstimulated or overworked and whatever. And your result is a mob brain where you can't function. Exercising your brain. The first thing that comes to my mind is like crossword puzzles. Oh, that's so funny. And so do Go and like

Jordan 27:45

memory games. Yeah, I was thinking memory games. Yeah. For sure. That's

Lindsay 27:49

funny.

Jordan 27:50

So you are talking about like Sudoku and memory games

Lindsay 27:53

and stuff. Well, that's where my mind goes when I think of exercising your brain. Yeah, interesting. But it doesn't necessarily help with like mom brain. It helps with mom stress and the way where you're just not thinking about motherhood. Yeah, no, okay, I totally get that. Like you're tuning out of like all the mom things to do. Yeah. And you're just focusing on essentially like the game like sudoku or crossword or I think it's What's that, uh, I used to play it starts with a t not tetris. I

Jordan 28:29

love tetris.

Lindsay 28:30

Maybe it maybe what's that one with like all the asians? Mahjong. Whoa, I don't know that one. Do you remember, you don't know, you don't know what mahjong is? I think I don't even know if I'm saying that right. I

Jordan 28:40

like, when you said that, my head went mahjong. Mahjong. But I don't have any idea why

Lindsay 28:45

I've never heard of it. It's like a tiles game that's like kind of like a matching and you like.

Jordan 28:51

I'm a chess kid. I love chess. Yeah. I used to

Lindsay 28:56

love checkers. Checkers is cool. But I've never, do you want to know what? I've never played chess in my life. Have you not? Never. Not once. What? There's this really popular kids chess game on Amazon. Uh huh. That is like rated like one of the best toys out there and I wanna get That's 'cause chess is like the best game really. I ever was I wanna get it so that I can like learn how to play.

Jordan 29:18

Oh Lindsay, it's so good. It's so addicting. Like I, yeah, we don't need to get into it, but it is like it fully, fully, it's so immersive for me. Like it takes me out of, you should do that situation. It kills, you should do this. My anxiety, unless I get on a. Tilt, if I go on tilt, then it creates a lot of problems for my household. I actually haven't played chess in a long time. Because I think my mom brain was kind of affecting my ability to win games and then if I was losing a bunch, it was just ugly. So I stopped for a bit, but I'm ready to get back into it. So if anyone wants to find me on chess. com.

Lindsay 29:55

Come find me. Of course, there's like a website. So you just play like people all around the world.

Jordan 30:02

Oh yeah, Lindsay, I met friends in, like I had a guy in Germany I was playing with regularly and a guy in France who I could like text and practice my French with. There was a, uh, guy I was playing with in, Saudi Arabia, and we were texting about how he was going through like, yeah, all kinds of crazy stuff. It was cool. Yeah. It's really cool. Yeah. It was kind of dorky and random. Is there a checkers. com? I

Lindsay 30:24

don't know. Probably not. I

Jordan 30:26

don't know. About it.

Lindsay 30:30

I don't know why I stopped there and did like, try

Jordan 30:34

chess. I don't know. I'm good to go. That's really cool. That's good brain exercise for

Lindsay 30:38

sure. That one. Yeah. Yeah. Just kind of maybe like. Set all the mom duties aside and kind of just immerse yourself in the skills for your brain. Um,. Taking time to recharge. This kind of goes with like the rest. I, I relate that to rest, but I'll get that taking time to recharge can also be like a way of like leaving your home.

Jordan 30:59

Yeah. Like going to the gym might be a recharging for you. Going out and socializing with some girlfriends or guy friends might be a way to recharge. Yes.

Lindsay 31:07

Yeah, recharge listening to like your favorite band on blast in the car. We're going

Jordan 31:12

to a concert Yeah, if you're that kind of person concerts wear me out. I love They don't recharge me. There could

Lindsay 31:19

be a concert at four o'clock in the afternoon. I tell

Jordan 31:22

Adrian all the time Oh my god, we have this conversation like once a week my husband loves like techno and he got really into like live music in the UK and And I'm all for that and he thinks that I hate it and I'm a fun hater because I cannot abide being awake until 4am. Like I can't. I just can't do it. I can't do it. Like, I

Lindsay 31:46

don't want to take drugs. It seems like techno is like hours and hours and hours long if like you go to any, a show. Yeah. Here's the thing. I love res. I love that bitch. She's amazing. I'm

Jordan 32:02

not

Lindsay 32:02

familiar. I'll have to look into it. I love her. I don't know what she is, what she does about like her, her art is just incredible. And I don't know if she like has a sense for the feminine energy, but her beats are just sick. So awesome. I think she's probably the only one I could listen to like for all night long and hours and hours and hours. So I love her. I love that. Anyways, that's what, yeah, we just, we talked about recharging and then we went on to DECMO. This is like non brain inaction. Yeah. Um, moving forward, being patient, uh, this is one I struggle with. Do you?

Jordan 32:43

Yeah. I feel like I'm pretty patient. But maybe

Lindsay 32:45

I'm not. I remind myself a lot to be patient and it does help me like in the moment when I'm reminding like Be patient and honestly patience has been a huge part of motherhood for me Oh, absolutely in all aspects in all forms, but I do find myself being like I'm a year into postpartum. Why? Why am I still dealing with this? Why? Why?

Jordan 33:10

Yeah, I get that. I totally get that. I do think, like, for me, I felt like having a baby, like, boosted my patience quite a bit, and I was wondering, actually, earlier in the conversation, if that was one of the ways that our brains are reshaped, if there's something in there that, like, helps us to be more patient. With at least has to be babies. Yeah, maybe not

Lindsay 33:33

husband. Yeah Yeah, cuz your baby doesn't have the words right to express what's going. Yeah I'm so you're just kind of like working with them and trying to figure out what they need and like as a

Jordan 33:44

toddler parent Especially like maybe when my baby was really little maybe not so much but now that now that my kids a toddler it feels like uh I feel like I have so much more patience with her than I would have expected. Yeah.

Lindsay 33:57

Yeah, that's something that could look forward to yeah I love that developing routines Is another one that can down is killer. Yes, that one helps me Incredibly. I have a routine that Yes, I'm ready for it to all blow up in flames, but I have a routine We have a young dog at our home too that needs care as well. She has a routine. I have a routine. Baby has a routine. We all like kind of thrive, off of a routine.

Jordan 34:31

Yeah. I'm going to add to that one a little bit. Yeah. So we and Adrian also have solid routines and I love them because it takes the guesswork out of, Oh, sure. Yep. I just take, it's decision fatigue that it removes, right? So, like, you don't have to wake up and think, what are we going to do? Or like, what's happening next? Or what does our night routine look like? one of the things that was really critical for us was coming up with a routine with our meal times because I, I'm kind of like in charge of breakfast in the way we structure our mornings and every morning I was getting up and being like, what, okay, what do you want for breakfast this morning? And Adrian was so tired and overworked and I don't know why we don't talk about dad brain because I think that's also a thing that he was dealing with and he just could not engage with what. I was asking him, like, at all. He would just get super mad, like, I don't care, just make anything. And so, finally, I was like, we can't do this every morning. We have to streamline breakfast. So, we came up with, like, one mega boring, but, like, you know, covers your bases breakfast that we could eat every single day of the week except one. And on that last day of the week, that's, like, our Like our fun, like we call it special breakfast. Oh cool. And we'll just like do something interesting because we love cooking Yeah, we just don't have the capacity to like make those decisions. The decision fatigue was running us both ragged So we kind of have like, but dinners are a little bit more like fun and creative for the most part But we do stick to like a couple batch meals that we can do leftovers with And then do a couple of creative dinners, but having that starting your day, starting your day with just like, if you have to do this, having the same breakfast every single morning to just decrease your decision fatigue by like that much, that might help your brain capacity a lot. Yeah, it did for me.

Lindsay 36:14

I definitely have the same thing. And my husband, Andrew, he has the same thing every morning too. Yeah. That's interesting, and I'm not sick of it yet. I'm pretty

Jordan 36:24

sick of ours, but I've been having it since I was pregnant. Oh. Yeah, because I couldn't, I mean, I was trying to eat eggs when I was pregnant for the choline. Yeah, for the choline. I mean, yeah, whatever, we don't have to get into specifics. But, yeah, I'm kind of sick of it, but I'm also not ready to take on the mental load of trying to figure out something else. So, same old breakfast it is. We should share. Breakfast ideas with each other. We should. I mean, I have one that you can have. I've got one idea. I

Lindsay 36:53

only have two or three. That's like it. Cool. Cool. Yeah. You might like this one grounding

Jordan 36:59

yourself. I do like that one. Meditation. Woo woo, everybody.

Lindsay 37:06

For real though, I do. Yes, this yogi over here, you're always a big inspiration to me for having the mat on the floor and grounding and whether that be mentally grounding or grounding your actual body. Usually

Jordan 37:20

that was the ladder. Yeah. Walking barefoot outside all day. Yes. Like a freak. Yeah.

Lindsay 37:28

Um, my careers are both like on your feet. I mean, yours is too, obviously, and there's nothing better than getting grounded on the like floor. Yin yoga. I'm,

Jordan 37:40

I love yin yoga so much

Lindsay 37:43

because I'm like, open my hips and ground me in these deep positions. I'm on the floor. Yeah. anyways, grounding yourself is wonderful for prepping yourself for like the day ahead.

Jordan 37:54

Um, unwinding from the day behind you.

Lindsay 37:56

Yes. Unwinding for sure. And then another, let's see. Another way to cope too. Asking for

Jordan 38:03

help, something we're all bad at. Mm-Hmm. Ask for help though. Yeah. You got some, like what are some ways that you ask for help? Well, shit, I'm putting me on the spot.

Lindsay 38:18

Cause I feel like I'm putting on the spot too when I see this. I'm like, ask for help. I'm like, all right,

Jordan 38:22

lens. When, how do you do that? I think we're good at supporting each other. I mean, I don't know if this qualifies. So that's one thing, I mean, we're really lucky because we have each other, and like, if one of us is going to the store, we'll often text the other person, like, hey, do you need anything from the store? Or, like, you know, if one of us is having a particularly bad day, the other person's bringing over, like, some chocolate or, like, a little treat. Maybe a good way to ask for help is to just find yourself a friend who can intuit that you need it. Yes. Yeah. Hopefully you can, because it goes a long, long way. It really does. I don't necessarily know if that counts. honestly can't think of that many ways that I ask for help. Like I. Definitely ask Adrienne for help with all sorts of little menial things all the time. Oh, sure. Yep. Um, and like my sister lives here and I ask her for help too. And it's usually little things like can you just like sit with her while she eats and I can run out to grab the mail or like, Yeah. You know, dumb little things like that. And then also asking my mom to come and babysit every once in a while. That's, I guess, a way that I ask for help. That's like all I can think of.

Lindsay 39:32

Yeah, I, I don't have many either.

Jordan 39:34

Yeah.

Lindsay 39:36

I wonder what that, what this whole thing is, is asking for, you know, asking for help. Like, what is it? Is it a

Jordan 39:43

generational thing? Is this just like Why is this so difficult for us? Yeah. I don't know.

Lindsay 39:48

Like when I have family visiting from out of town, they're here. I feel like they're wanting me to ask for help maybe more sure there's really like that much I enjoy their company too. And so I'll just say like yeah Hey, I'm gonna run these errands without my daughter Can you do nap time can you do feeding time? Yeah, that sort of thing. It's very superficial

Jordan 40:11

Yeah,

Lindsay 40:11

I don't I would say asking for help is like When I'm in therapy asking, like discussing what I'm going through,

Jordan 40:22

asking for feedback.

Lindsay 40:24

Yeah. It's more of like a therapeutical session.

Jordan 40:27

Yeah. That's so interesting. I would love to know. I mean, yeah. Write to us and tell us how you ask for help. Maybe we could do like a whole episode we can be better at asking for help and what that specifically looks like. I know

Lindsay 40:43

that you're, it's hard for you to ask for help as it is for me to ask for help. So I just anticipate totally the things that you might need and you're so

Jordan 40:51

good at that. You're so good at that. And I think that we've like, we've developed a relationship where we kind of can just like play off each other. And like, you know, one of us is kind of semi always doing something for the other person or ready to do something. Yeah. And you know what's funny too? Like. Yeah. That I've learned and I kind of have only learned this like in the context of being a parent because I don't think I ever really needed help before I became a mother, but there's something about like being pregnant and giving birth and the whole postpartum period that, puts you in such a vulnerable place where you like, not only do you need help, but I think it's like, at least during that time, it's, it's a time when everyone Yeah. sort of around you just knows that you will need something and they really show up for you. Yeah. And I think that showing up really showed me like what it's like to be somebody who can also help others. So the cool thing about just helping people in general is like. And the weird thing about why it's difficult for us to ask for help is when someone asks me for help, I'm like stoked about it a little bit. Like it feels really nice to be able to feel like valuable to someone else.

Lindsay 42:04

I asked you to watch my daughter for an hour once

Jordan 42:11

in our whole relationship. I know. Yeah, what are we doing?

Lindsay 42:17

I asked, yeah. And you were

Jordan 42:19

more than willing. I was excited. Yeah.

Lindsay 42:22

Yeah. And you gave me update, like a cute little picture

Jordan 42:26

update. Couldn't help myself. That was

Lindsay 42:28

adorable. Yeah. That, that felt good. And you felt good. And that's nice. Yeah. To do those things. And so. Yeah. We, you and I communicate a lot. I think it's great to have somebody that, like, you communicate a lot with. Like what they're going through, but can also help them before they

Jordan 42:46

even kind of think to ask. Yeah, definitely.

Lindsay 42:51

Yeah, so those are just some simple ways. Should I put quote unquote, simple?

Jordan 42:58

They sound very simple. They sound

Lindsay 42:59

simple. But when it comes down to it, it can be tough to get to these ways of coping every single day of your life.

Jordan 43:05

Yeah. Definitely.

Lindsay 43:06

During pregnancy and during postpartum

Jordan 43:08

and probably your whole parenting journey. Yeah. Altogether. Yeah.

Lindsay 43:12

Yeah. It's definitely going to evolve in all kinds of ways. Yeah. So that's mom

Jordan 43:17

brain. Yeah. Well, I've got my fingers crossed for

Lindsay 43:19

now. Yeah. Not so much as, yeah, not so much of a negative tone as it may

Jordan 43:24

seem. and reframing it to be something that's positive and adaptive. Yeah, yeah.

Lindsay 43:29

Carry on with your mom brain. Yeah, it is. It is what it is. Yeah, it's an embrace it. A thing that's happening. Um, Jordan's come across something that's really interesting and trending right now. So you take the

Jordan 43:43

mic, you don't know what it is. Okay. I don't think I told you what it is. That's okay. Um, so yeah, the thing that I was looking into today is something that's being called sharenting. Have you heard of this at all? Sharenting. Sharenting. T I N G? Yeah, it's like a silly portmanteau. Okay. It's like a combination word. Got it. Sharing. My mind. Sharing

Lindsay 44:08

parenting. Okay, I was just going to say my mind goes to sharing

Jordan 44:13

Yep. You got it. Got it. Okay. So elaborate. Yeah. Elaborate. Okay. So I'm guessing that a lot of you can probably guess where this is going. Sharing, uh, as in sharing online. So sharing team is,, sort of like the practice of parents or other caregivers, sharing pictures and information. About kids online. Oh yeah. Kind of without their consent.

Lindsay 44:34

Yes. Yeah. It's kind of like a, okay, I know what this is. Yeah, yeah. Seen know. I didn't know how to name to it like that, I guess. Yeah. I learned that today. Okay. Yeah. I know exactly what that's totally

Jordan 44:44

is all about. Yeah. So it's kind of an interesting thing's, not really something that our, like previous generations have had to really like deal with or think about at all. Mm-Hmm. Um, how much of their kids information and photos, you know, that they're like putting in out into public spaces. And we don't really always think about our social media channels. As public space? Like, I don't really think of mine as a public space much. Is yours set to private? It's set to private, yeah. I mean, it wasn't always. Like, I had it on public before I had a kid. And I don't, I don't know, I don't post a ton. and I'm not like a social media presence by any stretch of the imagination. Right, no one's out there looking for, for Yeah, no. So, I never really thought twice about it, right? Had my kid, I did kind of start to think about it a little bit more. And same Z's. Yeah. It's something that just starts to kind of creep in a little bit. And you see a lot of people who are totally comfy posting their kids online. And I'm like, do your own thing. Like ultimately as a parent, I think that you have full control and autonomy over like, You know what you want to do as a parent? I think that it gets a little bit more into some gray area when your kids are old enough to voice their yes their opinions and their feelings about it and if maybe they asked you to stop or boundaries with you, then you'd have to respect those. And that's what my argument would be. But yeah, the gray area here is big just generally. So because here's the thing, babies can't really consent, right? Correct. So, and they, the stuff that you post, is then out of your control., you kind of forfeit ownership of that thing. Yes. Right? Right. Like, from that moment forward. Uh huh. And that's something that I think we kind of just forget about when we're scrolling through social media. That, we shouldn't forget about maybe when we're involving our kids, because we care about them. Yeah. Some kind of media experts out there have given reasons why you might want to think twice about posting your kid to social media. Sure. Those reasons are things like identity fraud, oversharing personal details sometimes by mistake. So think of like, I don't know, showing a picture of your kid, like, on the first day of school in front of the school sign, right? Like,

Lindsay 46:52

just kind of Or in Mrs. or Mr.

Jordan 46:55

Blank's class. Yeah, totally. Things like that. So one of the reasons I wanted to talk about this was because I read some statistic today that said like 93 percent of kids under like two, I think it was, have some kind of a presence on the internet, but through social media. Yeah, it's pretty big. Right. And I was like, dang, that's crazy. And then I thought about my kid and I was like, Oh, well shit. Like, cause here's the thing. I have some friends who I met in Squamish when Adrian and I were living up in Canada, who, Had a daughter like just a year or two before we had ours and they did this really cute thing where they made an Instagram for her and it was totally private. And it was just like a little place where they could show like her videos and her cute photos and stuff like that. And I loved it. I loved being able to follow. Oh, sure. This cute little kid, you know, and see what their parenting journey was like and, like, love and get ideas from them and inspiration because that's, like, community is so, so important in parenthood. It's so important and our community. Outreach is happening through social media now. So it's almost kind of hard to say like never post Yeah, right, right. So there have to be safe and comfortable ways of going about it So I put I was like, well, I want to do the same thing for my family and close friends like in You know, Adrian's family is all overseas or out of the country. Yeah, and and we have so many friends all over the world who I would love to share our little like cute moments with our kid with. So I made a little Instagram yeah. Um, and I put like one picture up and then one of my buddies, kind of gave me a lot of shit for it. Really? Yeah, like he wasn't necessarily trying to, and in fact I don't even think he told me that he was giving me shit for it, but his wife like let me know that he thought it was a really bad idea and thought it was crazy that I had created an account for her. And I was like, well, it wasn't for anyone except for my family and like extremely close friends, but that was enough to like. Make me feel like I couldn't post to that. Interesting. One person's opinion, opinion and thought on it. Yeah. I mean, it was like a little mom shamey, but not too bad. Like. Maybe he was right. You know, I don't know. There are some crazy things out there. But I do think, like I said, that there are safe ways to go about it. And I do think that there's value in like sharing your experience as a parent. So the way that I've kind of contended with my own self about doing it is just setting my thing to private. I don't post that much anyway, like I said. and I am comfortable sharing pictures of my daughter on my private social media. I don't think I would make that public, but you know, you never know. Never say never. Um, but yeah, some things you can do. If this is something you're concerned about, maybe you're not concerned about it and you love sharing your kid. That's great. There's totally no shade. This is your decision to make. but if you are interested in kind of being a little bit more. Considered and you want to be cautious. You can make sure your settings on your social accounts are set to private

Lindsay 49:58

I have family that's far away, too. You still want them to be part of your life. Yeah. But, yet, you do want to help your child. In a sense that you're not putting too much out there like beyond those

Jordan 50:12

boundaries, right? Exactly, and I'm glad that you said that because the next one is to create a social media policy And I think that like a lot of the mom influencers that we follow like I followed lots of moms on social media who are totally comfortable putting their kids out there and I still have respect for those guys because I haven't really seen any that do it in a way that doesn't feel to their Children. Okay. I think that these people written something specific down. So the next one is to create a social media policy within your kind of family. I love that. Yes, me too. And it could be, you know, specific to your own family, but includes things like what you are comfortable posting, what you're not comfortable posting. I'm comfortable posting, maybe a picture of my kids like face or of the back of their head, but I'm not comfortable posting a cute little like naked bath picture for example or something. Right. Yep. It could be, even for people caregivers, um, like my mom, for example, I love her to pieces, and she loves my kids to pieces, and all she wants to do is show them off, right? So she loves to post pictures, and she's gotten really good over the years. At first, it was like, sort of, The kind of thing where we had to rein it in a little bit and be like, Hey, can you please just ask us before you put, I was, I'm a teenager, right? Like, can you please ask me before you post my picture online? Cause you're posting things that you think are really cute, but the rest of the world does not think are cute. Okay. Nip that in the butt. Yeah. Um, but now that I'm an adult who has a child, I'm like, well, So, she's gotten really good at asking me if she can post something before she posts it, which is great. But now, with this, like, social media policy thing, what we can do, and I haven't done this with my husband yet, but I would like to. I would love to do this. It's a good idea. What we can do is say, hey, mom, if you want, you can totally post pictures of my kid to your social media, as long as you, you know, have your settings set to private. She has two accounts, and I think one of them is public and one of them is private, and I would just ask her to only post to the one that's private. To the people I know, who's this she knows personally, and I'd be comfortable with that, for me, like, and maybe people's comfort is beyond that, maybe that would make other people feel uncomfortable, and they just don't want their kid online at all, and respect either way, but yeah, having that policy in place helps you to ensure that you are doing exactly what you want with your kid's digital footprint. And then like another thing is if you aren't comfortable posting to social media at all You can try things like shared photo albums on apple or google. That's something that me and adrian do with his parents You don't want to invite too many people to those because it kind of can just get messy Oh sure. I think I don't know in my experience it can get kind of messy Um, but that's a great way to like share photos

Lindsay 52:48

I make albums on my phone, like when I got married to my husband, we did like a wedding share. The album was literally called wedding share. And that's what we went to in order to share out and about in person with people that wanted to see photos of our wedding. Like that way. I wasn't like giving them also like maybe boring photos either that they were like that. But I also didn't want to give them like. But then there are pictures of

Jordan 53:14

those people in the album, too. So, like, I've been to plenty of weddings and been like, I wish I had some more photos from that, but it's not my wedding, so I don't. Right, right.

Lindsay 53:23

also think I have a daughter share. Yeah. I have her name and then it says share. Yeah. No, that's the, what I like. Cause I'll, I'll see acquaintances out in public and they're like,

Jordan 53:31

Oh, Oh, let me see pictures. Yeah, totally. Right. I do the same thing. Except I just go to the album, but I just show them from the album that we share with his parents. Yeah. That's clever. Yeah. Yeah. And then it's something where if you're going to make like a photo album, like a lot of people, like I know you do this, you take like, you know, Shutterfly or whatever book, right. Whatever like place you're going to go and get the book printed. You can take right from that because you know that that's where all the best pictures are coming. Yes. Yeah. Yeah good idea And that's another idea is just doing the like going fully old school and printing printing photos I'm printing them into a book to give to people That's like was one of the recommendations when I was doing some research on this and I thought I was like ridiculous But I guess it's like it works for some people

Lindsay 54:18

It's so slow. My mother-in-Law, definitely. She wants like an actual book. Yeah. She's not on like social as much. I mean, she's on it, but like, she's not seeing like sure she's not on Snapchat. But then also

Jordan 54:30

she's cute. Like I totally get that. Like Adrian's mom made us a book of his baby photos and I cherish that thing. Yeah. I cherish that thing. I guess when you don't have access to the photos, it, it becomes really Mm-Hmm. like really very, very valuable. Mm-Hmm. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. So yeah, that, that can also work for a lot of you who have time to put them together. Not me. Anyway, and then like, uh, the other thing, the last thing, and this kind of goes with the family policy, I think when your kids get old enough, um, just being really conscious of having consent is It's like really the end all be all to what's happening, like I mean, like I said, maybe there's some gray area with how much consent they can consciously give at what age, like when are they cognizant enough to be totally congruent with your decision to post. That's its own question, but I think that as a parent you can navigate that with your child as they grow up and have those conversations. Yeah, totally. and I think as long as you respect that yeah, then you're doing the best you can. Yeah. Yeah. I love, love, love that. Yeah.

Lindsay 55:37

You talked about, some social accounts that you do follow and that you do appreciate and one recommendation. Goes in hand with that.

Jordan 55:46

Yeah, so kind of on that topic, if there are people whose experiences you would like to follow, there's one girl in particular who's like absolutely knocking it out of the park when it comes to social media and she's killed it in every single. Way possible and Lindsay's nodding her head like the biggest nod ever.

Lindsay 56:07

Yeah I'm sure she's single

Jordan 56:10

handedly helped you. Oh my god, dude more than I could possibly say.

Lindsay 56:15

Yep carrie. Locker is big on Instagram. I think that's me, her

Jordan 56:21

main. Yeah. That's our main. That's our main. Yeah. We're millennials.

Lindsay 56:25

Yeah. That's our main social media platform.

Jordan 56:30

You introduced me to

Lindsay 56:30

her and I started looking at her stuff. I introduced you to her? I

Jordan 56:34

think I'm probably good. Yeah. I wonder how I came across her in the first place. Yeah. Who knows?

Lindsay 56:40

She's an RN. She's a lactation consultant, she has all this fantastic knowledge when it comes to, Caring for your baby at

Jordan 56:50

home and how to, I mean, where do you guys, every single question I have had about like the journey into motherhood and parenthood and anything to do with like adjusting to your kid or like, you know, sleeping, it's mostly breastfeeding stuff, but like it also covers sleeping and baby wearing, baby wearing, baby led weaning, how dealing with siblings, like. This stuff to have in the car. This girl's information is bottomless. Yes. Bottomless, like you can scroll through her stories that are saved. That's where it's at. Oh my god, it's stupid how much stuff

Lindsay 57:23

categorized story, or yeah, her categorized stories are where it's at. I learned

Jordan 57:29

everything. Truly, if you're not following her already, you must. Yeah, she's got this. She's got merch. She's got great merch.

Lindsay 57:37

Yeah. Yeah. She has single handedly helped me through like my troubles of breastfeeding I do recall when I learned about myself having Deemer through a Facebook mom group, I, I went to her page immediately and she does have a

Jordan 57:53

thing about it. She's so cool. And I learned she's so

Lindsay 57:58

cool.

Jordan 57:59

Just go have a peek at it and you'll see what we're talking about. Like she sells a course that's probably incredible. She sells the breastfeeding course. And I honestly, like. Bringing home baby courses. Bringing home baby is good. Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay 58:12

I, the breastfeeding course

Jordan 58:13

is amazing. Bringing home baby would be good. Yeah. I forgot she had that. Yeah. So she has courses you can buy. Um, but even if you can't afford courses, like I couldn't afford courses, but every single time I had a question, her Instagram page, I wouldn't even Google the answer. Lindsay, the first thing I did was go to Carrie Locker's Instagram because I knew it was going to be there. I knew it was going to be totally comprehensive. I knew it was going to be supportive. I knew it was going to be written by a mom who'd just been there and she was showing you that shit. Yeah, man, she has five

Lindsay 58:42

kids now and every one of her children have had like a very different. Postpartum. Totally. Different birth, different postpartum. Everything. Experience for her. Yeah. She's the best. She's the best. Yeah. The best. There's people in our lives that are gonna be new moms and I can't, I recommend

Jordan 59:03

her every single time. Every time. Yep. Every time. Oh yeah. Yeah. But that's our recommendation. Yeah.

Lindsay 59:09

Anyway, that's Yeah, we could go

Jordan 59:11

on and on and on. Yeah, all right, well let's wrap it up. I think that that was like actually going to be a pretty long episode. The mom brain took us in and out of all sorts of little sidebars and yeah, yeah. Yeah, another

Lindsay 59:25

like full episode of topics. We'll

Jordan 59:28

come at you with even more. Yes. Stick, stick tight for the travel episode. Maybe that one will be within the next couple and yeah, we're looking forward to talking with you guys again. Yeah. Cheers. -Bye. Thanks for listening to we have kids.