lindsay: 0:00

It's really hard to um, just go hang out and like, we're literally hanging out over nap time right now.

Jordan: 0:06

Yeah. Yeah. My kid's asleep

lindsay: 0:07

upstairs. So we find like these like moments where like, can you walk? I can go on a walk, you know, like we don't live too far from each other. So we're like, okay, let's do, let's do a walk quick and just. Get a fix of Like another human that can relate to what you're going through. Absolutely. I

Jordan: 0:22

see you taking like a big inhale to take a sigh, And we're on. Oh, hi. Hey. Yeah.

lindsay: 0:39

Hello. This is so exciting. Yeah,

Jordan: 0:41

super exciting. OK. All right, let's get into it. I'm Jordan. I've already said, um. Stop.

lindsay: 0:50

I'm just kidding. I'm Jordan. I'm Lindsay. Lindsay. With May.

Jordan: 0:57

And, uh, welcome. This is the We Have Kids podcast.

lindsay: 1:02

They are officially mind blown moms. We are. First time moms that must start a podcast about all the things. Too

Jordan: 1:10

much to talk about. Not to.

lindsay: 1:11

Yeah. I think our topic list is Over a thousand. Yeah. Of things. Yeah. So,

Jordan: 1:17

uh, kick back. Yes. I hope you got some time and a couple of kids to follow along with us. Yeah. Alright. Yeah. So, tell us about yourself, Lindsay.

lindsay: 1:27

We're gonna do a little intro here. Yeah. I am Lindsay I am a mother of a 11 month old daughter. She's my first born and I am a Minnesota, Utah. I moved, I'm a transplant to Utah. Lost my Minnesota accent. A little bit. A little bit, yeah. I do get Same bag. Yeah. It's big Yeah. I didn't realize I said that word every day until I moved here. Yep. You say it all the time. And then immediately got teased every single day. So yeah. Now in Utah. Love it. Family and friends still back home. Still love Minnesota for all the certain seasons. If you're from Minnesota, you know those seasons. And then. Yeah, if you, just to shorten it up about my little personality, I am a fear of the unknown, anxious, insomniac. I only have to have those words for you to understand who exactly I am. Especially if you're a mom. Um, fear of the unknown. Yeah, that's gonna, it really set me up for a first time child. I think I get that from working in healthcare. I've been in healthcare for 13 years ish, going on 14. I work in the operating room, not so much, uh, since my daughter was born. I took a hiatus from the healthcare world. I actually came back a little bit after COVID. If you know, you know, yeah, I've been a stay at home mom with, my daughter, it's been great and tough and exhausting all at the same time. It's wonderful, beautiful, exhausting thing. So fear of the unknown. Yes. Uh, all the first. All the firsts of everything leaves me incredibly anxious. I like to know what I'm doing in order to just feel conquered and get through it. But all the lessons have come and then anxious. Yeah, you can call me anxious. If I didn't have like six bottles ready for her in the fridge at all times, I was freaking out. It's tough. and then obviously after a few months of that, anxiety, um, had to kick, just kind of chill out a little bit. and then insomniac. Yeah, I'm a light sleeper. I, I, I'm going to say it comes from my health care days working on call in the middle of the night, waiting for that phone to go off. I've always been a really light sleeper and then dealt with insomniac when I was pregnant. first big first trimester symptoms I had, and then that just literally never went away. So I do all the nighttime things sometimes, uh, Jordan and I will do a little Marco Polo videos. Yes. She'll open up my, my Marco Polo and it's like red light, orange glasses late at night, like settling in for bedtime. I do all the sleep rituals so that I don't deal with insomnia. Uh, it's tough. I pretty much have to do, do it in order not to get it, through the night. So that's me healthcare, 13 years. I've been a server for 20. It got me through college and afterwards, great part time gig. Started in a mom pop cafe, small town in Minnesota. Then on to supper clubs, if you don't know what those are. Those are like a big dinner club. Steak and beans and potatoes. A big ol supper club. I've never heard of that. And then on to a European. Fine Dining, which opened my world for the passion of cooking and learning all about raising animals and everything. So I've been in Forbes Fine Dining since,, gosh, probably the last 10 years. And then, yeah. I know all the things I know. I know all the things. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen it all done at all pretty much in the restaurants. Yeah. If you have any questions in the future, you just ask away about restaurant life. We go. Yeah. So that's pretty much about

Jordan: 5:27

me. Yeah. Great. Yeah. Well, that's an easy segue. I met Lindsay in one of those restaurants. Yes.

lindsay: 5:33

That's why we're here. God,

Jordan: 5:34

how many

lindsay: 5:35

years ago? What was that? 2000, I mean, I started there in 20, 2018, I think. What? You did? Yeah. So I'm pushing like seven ish years, but I, I worked in the fine dining restaurant. You were in kind of the more cash restaurant. Yeah. So I probably knew of you. Yeah, but I worked a few

Jordan: 5:56

shifts down there. Yeah, that's so I remember. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I remember the very first shift I worked with you. Oh, I was, yeah. I was like a server and I think, I don't know if you were my back waiter, if you were someone else, er in for somebody. I was. I'm, I've been at this place that we work for like an embarrassingly long time. I've been a server, I've been working in that restaurant since 2000. This is gonna shock everyone. 2007. Woo. Yeah. I started as a little hostess, and it was just a part time second job. Yeah, I was. Thanks for aging me.

lindsay: 6:33

If anyone's aged, I was out of high school in 2007. Um,

Jordan: 6:38

yeah, so I started there in 2007 as a hostess, kind of just moved up to a serving position, and had kind of a wild ride of adult life, so I, I stayed there. It worked out with me along. Some crazy journeys, uh, which we can get tuned in a second. But yeah, that first shift I worked with you. I remember Talking to you at the end of the shift. I specifically remember you were talking about because I was in nursing school at the time Oh, yeah, so I was also sort of dipping my toe into health care and we were talking about how Lindsay was a surgical Surgical assistant. Yes, and she was telling me that Us if you smoke Cutting into your skin feels like cutting into the skin of like an old banana. Oh yeah! And I was like, that's

lindsay: 7:24

so cool. Yes, yes, yes. This girl's rad. A very ripe banana is either someone that's, you know, maybe elderly, they've lost some collagen in their skin, or chronic smoker, or someone that just doesn't drink water, or drinks too much alcohol maybe in their life. Go

Jordan: 7:44

have some water, everyone. Yeah, we have 40 ounces right next to us ready to go. That's great. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. That's what I remember. Um, yeah, and we've kind of been pretty good friends ever since, but I would say that our friendship definitely leveled up when we decided we were ready to procreate. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

lindsay: 8:04

Yeah. That was so funny. So you're married. I'm recently married. We were, I don't know what made us talk about having families, but I probably asked you, are you guys going to, you know, have kids someday? Because your life is just wild and traveling and all over the place. Yeah. Yeah. You and your husband's. And I recall our, one of our great late, uh, co workers, you were pregnant and I got pregnant, like probably not too long afterwards. And he's like, are you pregnant? Cause Jordan's pregnant. Oh, you're so sweet. I'm definitely not planning my entire life just because one of my great. Great friends at work is like pregnant. So that was really, and he just meant it absolutely genuinely. And like, it was so sweet. I'll always remember him by that comment. Plus that

Jordan: 8:50

heart. Yeah. Oh, that's so good. No, we didn't plan our lives around each other, but it's worked out really nicely for us. Yeah. So me and my husband, Lindsay just said she's recently married. We're, uh, we got married in 2017. I met him, the same way I've met everyone in my entire adult life, which is through the place I work. It's a ski resort, and, yeah, it's been a great place for meeting tons and tons of new people. Um, I served him. He was in town filming one of our really good friends, um, who was a pretty prolific ice climber. He, my husband did, like, adventure film work back in the day, right? Love hearing about the stories. Yes, and I'm like a huge rock climber, and he was a huge rock climber, so we hit it off immediately, had tons to talk about. He was in town, he is actually from the UK, so he was only in town for like a week. We hung out a couple of times, we really liked each other, and I was, again, I was in nursing school at the time, and I remember that During the upcoming semester break, I was planning a trip to Europe. So I told Adrian, hey, I'm going to Europe. Should we hang out? And he invited me to stay with him in England. We went on a climbing trip to Spain together. And then had basically like, I'll give you the super condensed version. Like three to four years of crazy long distance. visa trouble riddled Relationship after we got married it took us three years to get his visa to live in the US So we spent time I lived in the UK for a little bit We did a lot of traveling together for work. I kind of helped him with his film making journey for a little while there and Yeah, we eventually landed in British Columbia for a little while while we waited for his visa to go through. And then finally in 2020, after a very rough COVID period for us, living in different countries, that was insane. Um, Yeah, he finally made it back and we landed here in

lindsay: 10:44

Utah. I remember, our resort closed down for COVID. Yeah, that was crazy. And you were like, I'm booking it to Canada. I had to hustle. Yeah, cause he was in Canada at the time. Yeah, that was. And you, you drove probably as fast as

Jordan: 10:58

possible. Oh, I absolutely. So that was

lindsay: 11:01

crazy. Yeah. The border was like, we're closing. About to shut. Like the clock is ticking. Yep. Yeah. And you were trying to race against the clock and you, I'll never forget the day, like you. Either called me or you text me and you like pulled over the moment you got past the board. Yeah, so happy could not keep it together it gives me goosebumps just thinking about it

Jordan: 11:26

what a crazy crazy Yeah, so glad I'm so glad that's over. Who else is glad it's over.

lindsay: 11:31

Yeah Yeah, your story is like storybook worthy for sure.

Jordan: 11:35

Yeah, maybe we can

11:36

go

lindsay: 11:37

into greater adventures Yeah. I met my husband and another common way that people meet is on Tinder. We work with younger folks. Yeah. These, uh, and it sounds like Tinder is just like kind of a nightmare right now. I don't know if it is or not, but like, it just sounds

Jordan: 11:53

like. No, I'm very, very grateful to have never had to get my

lindsay: 11:56

tongue into that. I met my husband through Tinder in the beginning days of Tinder. I think I was on it for five days. Just wasn't meeting guys, like, I was very social, just wasn't meeting somebody that was, filling up my cup. And I met him, he was in Maui at the time. I was back in the Midwest, and we talked for a few months. I met his mom before I met him. He aligned a nice little breakfast for us.

Jordan: 12:22

Everyone's dream. Yeah.

lindsay: 12:23

Yeah. Yes. He's like, I need to really make sure she does not have a penis. No, um, he, yeah, he lined up a nice little breakfast and actually had a really fantastic time with her. And then I flew out to Maui after a few months of talking, hung out with him out there for ten ish days, I think, and it went great, had a great time. And then he came back to the mainland that spring and started his job search. He was going to school online and finally graduated, job searched, and that's what brought us out to Utah is we were looking in areas of the country where we really like to, like, we're big hunters and fishers and outdoorsy people. I hike and do all the fun outdoorsy stuff. So we looked in areas of the country where we could do all that. And that's where he applied to. and one of them brought us out to Utah and the rest is history. Why

Jordan: 13:16

are we here? Yes. Great question. What brings us to these beautiful microphones? Well, as a mom or even a parent, I guess we can kind of like expand that to everybody. I think that everyone has had the experience of. Well, a couple of different experiences, right? So my experience of podcasting in parenthood is. It gives me, uh, an outlet, something to listen to while I'm endlessly folding laundry. Yes. Yes. Or driving around running errands, like there's always

lindsay: 13:47

something nice. Finding somebody you can relate to. Absolutely. Outside of your home. Yeah.

Jordan: 13:52

Yeah. There's a lot to, there's a big learning curve when it comes to parenting.

lindsay: 13:56

Yeah. I think that I would say that we're mind blown by, I think I mentioned that already, but we're absolutely mind blown by all the first. Yeah. Things. Yeah,

Jordan: 14:04

you can't prepare for it. No. You totally can't

lindsay: 14:07

prepare for it. What the hell? No way. Like what, what just happened to our lives? And it's been really nice, like our, our kids are a few months apart and uh, it's been a wonderful journey. Like doing it together or, you know, kind of essentially doing it together and following along and learning from Jordan and going through all the things she's gone through. But yeah, also experiencing it on my own too and it being vast, like completely different. So different. Yeah. And so it's been great to, just vent to each other and ask each other and like, what the hell, like all the things. And also like we come across these new things we're learning about. Hey, did you learn about this or check this out or this could help or

Jordan: 14:46

whatever. Yeah, absolutely. Bouncing ideas off, sharing learning resources, asking how things went for you.

lindsay: 14:53

It's really hard to um, just go hang out and like, we're literally hanging out over nap time right now.

Jordan: 14:59

Yeah. Yeah. My kid's asleep

lindsay: 15:01

upstairs. So we find like these like moments where like, can you walk? I can go on a walk, you know, like we don't live too far from each other. So we're like, okay, let's do, let's do a walk quick and just. Get a fix of Like another human that can relate to what you're going through. Absolutely. I

Jordan: 15:15

see you taking like a big inhale to take a sigh, get a fix of just that offloading, offloading of all of that mom energy or parent energy that you just like carry with you all day long. Yeah. Yeah. We're hoping to kind of just be able to be that for you guys.

lindsay: 15:31

Yeah. Listen in there's, there's like, we've done tons, we've listened to tons of podcasts about parenting and there's tons out there for like researching certain topics. If you're wondering about something. It's specific, you can go find it, but this is kind of just more of like a hangout mom sesh too. I have found myself like listening to, if I need to learn about a topic, okay, I go into the podcast and I'll go, I'll search the episode. And I'll zone out halfway through it because I'm just like, my brain literally just can't acknowledge what all the research, I just need to hang out with like, I just needed like too much data. Yeah. I just need to like hang out and talk to my mom. So that's what we're

Jordan: 16:11

doing. Yeah. We're not data analysts just for the record. Yes.

lindsay: 16:14

That's not our fun topics of things we've gone through or things we want to talk about or things that are approaching, but yeah, we've like been through

Jordan: 16:23

some, some shit. Yeah. We've experienced some stuff. It's probably different to what you've experienced, but I'm sure that there's something if you have a kid Anywhere nearby you. Mm hmm. We'll probably be talking about something you kind of can understand. Mm hmm.

lindsay: 16:38

Yeah Yeah on mom level.

Jordan: 16:41

Yes on mom on the deepest

lindsay: 16:46

Deepest mom love. But very superficial researched level. Yeah, yeah,

Jordan: 16:51

yeah, yeah. Superficially researched deep mom shit. This is us. Yeah. So welcome to our podcast. Yeah, let's go. We have kids.

lindsay: 16:59

That's all. That's all you need to know.

Jordan: 17:05

Great, so each episode we have something that we, that one of us has looked into. Mm hmm. Um, whether that's a little bit superficially, maybe we're digging in and doing like a little bit more research. But yeah, just something we can bring to the table and talk about that maybe, maybe it doesn't get talked about enough, or maybe we talk about it way too much, but we can't help ourselves. Yes. Maybe it's a burning question that we've had somewhere along the way. And we think that someone out there could benefit from hearing what we've gone through or hearing what we, yeah, have learned. So this week. Lindsay's going to tell us a little bit about something

lindsay: 17:41

that she experienced. When we were talking about topics to start with, this one has my heart because I went through it quite, I went through quite the ringer, if you will, uh, going through this. It's called Deemer. We're going to talk about Deemer. Yeah. Something I don't know much about. Yeah. She didn't, uh, Jordan didn't experience Deemer. Tell us all about it. A lot of, I'll, I'll mention, I found this out through, I, I joined like a mom's first time mom's Facebook group, which had its, has its ups and downs. Um, and I, yeah, yeah, yeah, it gets a little, there's some, you know, there's some anxious moms out there, but. Um, it's a good resource if you, if you have questions and, and need just community. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody needs

Jordan: 18:27

that. As moms, especially you gotta have that. So I

lindsay: 18:30

threw in the question, Hey, what do you guys, what, if you guys are all like breastfed or pumped and you have these symptoms only during these times. What, like, can I hear from you? And one of the moms was like, you have DMER. Absolutely. And I had never heard of this term. It's D M E R. Yep. Acronym for dysphoric milk ejection reflux. which obviously is a very hard term to remember. Yeah. So tell us about, tell us about that person. It's fascinating. Um, it's, it's not something that happens throughout the entire postpartum phase. It's only happening during a fast letdown, breastfeeding has more intense symptoms than pumping due to the oxytocin. Release it's

Jordan: 19:19

because of the oxytocin. Yeah, that's wild. I thought that there was like a lack of Oxytocin

lindsay: 19:24

or something. No, so that's kind of what triggers the dopamine to release from your brain and Demer is From dopamine dropping too fast. Oh, wow. So my dopamine rate was absolutely Astronomically too fast. I would I could literally feel it just like wiping my brain empty That's wild

Jordan: 19:45

and you would think like somebody who hasn't experienced this Yeah might be listening to Lindsay and thinking that that sounds like kind of euphoric. Yes However, uh, but yeah,

lindsay: 19:58

yeah, the very opposite of euphoric. It's a very intense feeling. I've actually videoed myself like going through it just just because it was like, I gotta see what like I actually look like physically going through this. Can you tell

Jordan: 20:09

us about like, yeah, what the Yes. Get really into like the actual, yeah, just

lindsay: 20:14

experience. So I would, um, start a breastfeed session and, takes about few, a good few minutes, obviously everybody's very different, but their milk let down can happen anywhere between three to 10 minutes. It's like you somewhere in there, 10 minutes is obviously on the longer end of it, but within a few minutes I would have a milk let down. Um, which was also too fast for my daughter, uh, she struggled with that, but I would feel symptoms of intense negativity, sadness, it would almost feel like a haze. If you will. It felt like my brain was like the darkest, grayest cloud, very heavy. And that was happening during my letdown. And what happens with that is all your dopamine has left your brain. And you have no more feeling of like, you know, happiness or anything, everyone kind of tells you this breastfeeding game is a journey. It's so beautiful. You connecting your bonding. And I was not having any of that feeling going on. It was literally something chemically going on in my brain. And so what got me through that, and I'll, I'll know that this as researched and it's not, um, related to postpartum depression, you can have postpartum depression. You can have postpartum anxiety. I had PPA, but, um, DEMUR is something like separated from that. I looked this up, I went nuts, I like asked this mom group friend on Facebook, they said DEMUR, check it out. Went online, found a ton of information on it, about it. Not a lot of people knew about it. I mean, I would go to my therapist, I'd tell my fertility acupuncturist, I'd tell my friends, I'd tell my sister, I would tell my mom, like nobody heard about this. It all experienced, you know, my sister experienced it incredibly and she had no idea it had a name to it. So anyways, your dopamine is emptied from your brain at a fast rate, and that's what can bring on these symptoms of like, heavy brain, if you will.

Jordan: 22:13

Yeah, like doom, I think is the word that you used when you told me about it. Yeah. Yeah. Sounded terrifying. Absolutely doomed. And it's especially terrifying because it's at a time that you, like you said, is supposed to be so beautiful and like you're connecting. So to feel something that is like totally the opposite of that must have been so disorienting. Yes,

lindsay: 22:33

it was because I It was feeding my child,

Jordan: 22:36

which is also by the way, something that you need to do one way or another. Yes.

lindsay: 22:41

Like how am I going to get through this over and over and over and over. And so this also happens for each milk letdown. She'd switch onto the next side and it happened again for the next letdown. So how long did it last? So, yeah, so it only lasts a few minutes because you're waiting for that dopamine to fill up in your brain again. It can take anywhere between. I think, like I mentioned, kind of similar to like a letdown, like three to ten minutes. There's no like standard, um, But

Jordan: 23:05

it goes away pretty quickly after it's finished

lindsay: 23:08

feeding. Yes, yeah, yeah. I would set a timer on my phone for five minutes just so that I could feel better that it was not going to last more than that. I felt like it

Jordan: 23:17

was to remind yourself that it was

lindsay: 23:19

temporary. Yeah, to remind myself it was temporary. And I think that's what, like, helped me continue breastfeeding. I wanted to continue. I wasn't feeling too awful in the moments of doing it, but It did get to a point where it just was not happening because my letdown was so fast for my daughter. And so then I started pumping. Were

Jordan: 23:41

you experiencing Demer from like the moment you started breastfeeding in the hospital? No, I

lindsay: 23:45

don't remember. I do not remember those feelings at the hospital at all. So when would you, I would probably say with like it started. So she had some latching issues. We went, we worked with lactation consultants within the first month of her and then probably, Shortly after that, it started kicking in and I don't know if that was like my body's like hormones changing After pregnancy and after giving birth and all that and so it was probably like a month to four months We had a big vacation three months after she was born and I exclusively pumped from that point on I remember trying to breastfeed once coming back from that and it wasn't just the demer was so intense and I was like Alright, I'm done. Yeah, so then I started pumping and pumping with demer It's a little different. You don't have such a oxytocin release because you're not bonding with your baby You're kind of separated from that and so I would say like my experience from pumping with Deemer was extreme nauseous. I didn't have like the doom that you mentioned. I didn't have like that feeling of doom I didn't have like the haze didn't have like the the heavy like dark cloud in my mind. It was just more extreme nauseous I felt like I could throw up Across the room every single time I put that pump on it. Yeah,

Jordan: 25:00

and if you've ever pumped before you know that it's fun enough Without feeling absolutely nauseated. Yeah. Yeah, it was a whole

lindsay: 25:08

trip. So that was my personal experience with Deemer so just Yeah, just to go on and on about it. It's not necessarily something every mom goes through. It's not something that every mom will go through for each child that she has. I have talked with other people that have had DEMUR for their first baby and didn't have it for their second baby. Did your sister have it for her? She exclusively pumped her second child, and I don't recall her telling me she was nauseous. Alright, interesting. So, yeah, so I'm hopeful that I never have to go through something like that again. Yeah, fingers crossed. But at least I know, like, if I do, you know, it's gonna be okay, and I'll just get through it and figure it out. So yeah, not every single mom goes through something like this, and I think that's probably why it's not discussed. I mean, I was pretty, I was pretty bummed that my lactation consultants in the hospital, I had my child in the hospital, I had visits from the lactation consultants there, I had a visit after I left the hospital, like a week after being home, and I was pretty bummed that They give you so much information and it almost goes right over your head. Yeah.

Jordan: 26:13

Especially after you've just gone through labor. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

lindsay: 26:16

yeah. Yeah. They, I mean, they load you up with all the information they possibly can, which is wonderful and great. It's a great resource, but I was kind of bummed that my lactation consultants didn't come front and say, Hey, you're going to, you might feel this with your baby. I just wish there was more focus on like

Jordan: 26:32

that. I wonder what percentage of women do experience something like this. It's gotta be, I mean, I, my, my gut is telling me it's gotta be low, but again, that's because nobody's talking about it. And it could be something like, there's a, there's really a lot of like shame for some reason around breastfeeding and feeding your children. Like, this is a huge thing that so many women. Face, like if they for some reason can't breastfeed and they have to formula feed or pump and feed, which by the way is breastfeeding. And I think that that like little bit of shame, like if things aren't going perfectly well, just feeling like you're not doing a good enough job as a mom. Oh yeah. We'll keep people from talking about

lindsay: 27:14

the negative experiences they have. And if you go through something like this, you're just going to be like, it must just be part of like, yeah, something's wrong with me. You can't tell people about that. Yeah, and it must just be some, a side effect or a symptom of, excuse me, a symptom of postpartum depression or something that. Yeah.

Jordan: 27:30

If you've experienced anything like this, talk about it. Yeah. Please talk about it. It helps so much to know that you're not alone.

lindsay: 27:37

Yeah. There's some resources that I'm going to post here. Um, I went to deemer. org. Um, I went to Cleveland Clinic, uh, Medela, our famous, like, hand pump that everybody loves. They have a great article about it. But, um, one of my researches, it was like, it was really low. It was like only 5 to 9 percent of people that are lactating. That's not that

Jordan: 27:57

low. Yeah, like 5 to 9%? That's not that low. That's like enough that we should have heard about it. Yeah, you're

lindsay: 28:04

right. I feel like we never hear about anything when it's under 20%. Weird. Don't you? Like, I don't know. Like, what is the actual percentage that makes it something significant when all of it is significant to talk about? Yeah.

Jordan: 28:17

God, great point. I don't know. That's wild. So, if, uh, what advice would you give to somebody who, like, thinks they might be going through this?

lindsay: 28:25

Obviously, hit up Deemer. org. The girl that, um, has this website. She has a wonderful PowerPoint. Like visually showing you what it may can look like I would go there I would absolutely get a hold of your lactation consultancy if they know anything about it They should I would hope they do

Jordan: 28:43

and if you don't know where to find a lactation Consultant if you didn't give birth in a hospital or if you didn't see a lactation consultant in the hospital Your local hospital should absolutely have a resource for you if you call them. Oh,

lindsay: 28:54

yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I would go deemer. org lactation consultants and just start researching I love your type A approach. Yeah, yes. Just do

Jordan: 29:05

research.

lindsay: 29:06

Yeah, find it. Whatever you're going through, you should totally be talking about it, researching. Researching your symptoms. All the things narrow it down for yourself. And just another tip I would say is obviously learning or going through it and learning from it. It is not, it is temporary.

Jordan: 29:24

Yeah. I think that's critical. What any

lindsay: 29:27

suffering and what is important to is when you, if say you're listening to this episode and you are currently breastfeeding or lactating in general, hearing That is temporary is probably like you just want to throw your fist in the wall like you're in it and you just don't want to hear it's temporary because you feel like it's never going to be. It's never temporary, but it is temporary. Here to reassure you promise. Um, but Hey, and if it, if, if you end up having demerits second round, it's a okay to resort to pumping. If you don't want to pump, it's a okay to resort to formula and just know that like all of it's okay. You have to take care of yourself first. I am somebody that was just kind of so connected to my child, like being the force behind all of her food. Yeah. For a long time. Of course you were connected to that. And like, that was just like, I have to do it, I have to fight through it, I have to fight through it. And you pumped for

Jordan: 30:23

so long. Yeah. How long did you exclusively pump for?

lindsay: 30:27

I exclusively pumped for six and a half months. That's insane. Oh, no, seven and a half. Yeah. Yeah. Seven and a half months. That's a long time. So, it is a long time. Um, yeah. Yeah, I remember when I was going through it for three months, exclusively pumping and talking to you about it. You're like, you've done it for so long. Like you were such a good cheerleader. Just even know that like three months of pumping is a long time and it's

Jordan: 30:52

three weeks, three minutes of pumping. It feels like a long, long time. I didn't have this experience obviously that Lindsay had. Um, my breastfeeding journey was. Privileged, but I, I mean, I am a full time working mom, so I do pump at work and I did have that experience and I've cleaned a fair share of pump parts. And I'm here to say that I never want to do it again. So my hat was off to Lindsay for, for going so long. Yeah. And honestly, like, yeah, from three months or even sooner, like I wasn't telling her what to do by any means, but like kind of always nudging in like, Hey, if you, Want to switch to formula. You can switch to formula. Yes. And I think that's something that is so important for us to, like, there's so much pressure to breastfeed. Mm hmm. There's so much pressure to breastfeed.

lindsay: 31:44

Just the fact that you're, you have food for your child in your body alone. Just that fact. Of

Jordan: 31:51

is pressure is pressure. Yeah, it's crazy. So yeah, it's hard for me to say like, as somebody who didn't need to, to supplement with formula or to exclusively formula feed. It's hard for that to come from me. But, uh, yeah, I just saw what she was going through and it didn't feel worth it.

lindsay: 32:10

Yeah, and there really is no treatment for this. I've kind of dived in and looked around and, um, there's really no treatment, it's just like, get through it. Yeah, so much of motherhood. Yeah, yeah, and if you, and like, for me, that's me saying, like, just get through it because I really just, like, had to get through it. But if you don't want to get through it, you don't have to get through it, so, yeah,

Jordan: 32:31

yeah. Deemer. Deemer. I hope that you. I hope you're not experiencing it. And if you are experiencing it, I hope you have some resources. Yeah. If not, just give us a shout out. Email us. Lindsay will talk to you for a minute.

lindsay: 32:48

I'd love to. Yeah.

Jordan: 32:50

So, uh, Speaking of oxytocin.

lindsay: 32:56

Yes. Hormones. How much,

Jordan: 33:00

how much sex are you having Lindsay?

lindsay: 33:04

Would you say it's

Jordan: 33:05

less? Would you say it's less than before you

lindsay: 33:09

had your baby?

Jordan: 33:10

It's less? Yeah. Okay, yeah. Cool. So my experience isn't, isn't isolated. Ben. Yeah. No.

lindsay: 33:17

If someone's having more sex postpartum,

Jordan: 33:22

please inquire. Give us a call. We need

lindsay: 33:27

to know what's happening. We'd like to figure out why.

Jordan: 33:30

Tell us how you're doing it. Yeah. Please. Uh, yeah, so sex, everybody knows this. I'm not coming in hot with new information. People with kids are having less sex. Period. Like, there's just no way. There's just no way around it. Your time is constrained. Your energy it doesn't exist anymore. Right. Adrian and I, we go to bed at night. I mean, and it's like,

lindsay: 33:59

it's hard to even notice. Like my husband's natural, like pheromones again. Oh yeah. You know, like totally things that like has sent that would turn me on. Like, I can't, I don't even like.

Jordan: 34:10

Your brain is in so many other places. That's like the last priority. Yeah, right. Yes Yes and that's just the problem like sex becomes a Last priority for all of us like when I sit down at the start of the I'm very goal oriented I have a little bullet journal. Um, I like to write down At the start of the week, everything that I, that is important to me, I try to prioritize it, I plan it in, I wrote it into a calendar. Me and Adrienne have a shared Google calendar that we're very vehement about updating and keeping nice and clean and tidy so that we're all on the same page about everything. And

lindsay: 34:46

here's the thing. It's a whole unit. Yeah, it's a system. Andrew and I have the same, like, calendar. You got to. You

Jordan: 34:52

got to. Here's the thing. If you asked any random parent how much of a priority their sex life was in their relationship I think you'd get the same answer for most people. Yeah. And that is that it's important. Yeah. It's important. Yeah. But it's like, when I sit down to my calendar, guess what's not on it? I know. The sex. Who wants to schedule sex? You don't want to schedule sex. Okay, but here's my hot take for this week. For this episode, I should say. Scheduling sex needs to be a thing when you're a parent. If you want to prioritize it, you've got to put it in the calendar. Yep. Even if you're not really a calendar person, I really think this is super important. What it tells your partner is that a, I still am attracted to you, which for like for me personally is something that I think Adrian would love to hear. Like, I don't tell him that in any kind of way. I get home from work at the end of the night and if he comes in for a hug, I'm like, you better step away.

lindsay: 35:58

Get

Jordan: 35:59

those hands ten feet away from me. Yes. I'm gonna go take a shower. Yeah, and you can't come peek at

lindsay: 36:06

me. Yeah

Jordan: 36:11

Totally I get so touched out, you know, you're so overstimulated. Yeah everything. Yeah, even I mean you're a stay at home mom You're not getting overstimulated at work like I am now, but you're definitely getting overstimulated over touched. Absolutely. Yeah in all the ways. Yes Um, so yeah, I need to be telling my partner that I, that I care about him and that I like, I, this is something that I want still, right? Um, and for me, the only way to do that, the only way to work that into like the, the thousand other things that I'm trying to get done this week is to remind myself that it is enough of a priority that I want it in the calendar. And Yeah, this is a hot take because I don't think that a lot of people like the idea of that people wanna have spontaneous sex.

lindsay: 36:53

Scheduling sounds like just like the worst. It's so admin. Yeah, but here's, here's, like, for instance, what we do, we have a very busy schedule. Andrew's got certain things that he does. Certain days I have things going on certain days. But we, the way to schedule it in is yo, like Fridays, there's nothing else for us to do. I have, don't have to work on podcasty things. I don't have to work on like hobby things, extra yard work. I don't put anything on my plate that day whatsoever. It's just stay at home mom during the day. Andrew comes home and hang out night. Like he doesn't work on it night.

Jordan: 37:28

Yeah.

lindsay: 37:28

At home. Yeah. Well, yeah. Or go out on a date if I have. Yeah. Something. But like that, he, he knows that that's like the day too, that he doesn't have to work on anything extra. No yard work on that day. No like, you know, extra business y stuff, nothing. We just leave that day open completely. And now I don't have to text you on a Friday night. You don't have to like necessarily talk about it, like schedule it in, but we just both know like. But that is your schedule. That's

Jordan: 37:55

if your schedule repeats week after week, making one like chunk of time from you Friday evening, your time to connect with your partner physically or otherwise. And for a lot of people, physical is like a huge component. That's perfect. And that is absolutely what I'm talking about when I say a schedule of sex. Um, for, for Adrian and I are, my, I still, I'm still a server. You guys, I'm still working in a restaurant. My schedule's

lindsay: 38:20

crazy. Yeah, she's down during the night. Yeah, you guys have that parent life where like you're switching off. Totally. He's at work during the day, you guys, he comes home, you switch off, you go out, you're off to work, so your schedule is really tight. It's

Jordan: 38:33

tight and it changes week by week, so, so what Lindsay, what works for her and Andrew is not gonna work with me and Adrian. We'd get like one Friday night a month then, if we're lucky. So what I can do is sit down with him, you know, at the start of you can do it on a Sunday, you can do it on a Monday. Whenever your week feels like it's starting or ending, you can look forward and say, Okay, this is the time that we have. To dedicate to each other this week and, this is an idea that I got from, this awesome couple on, on Instagram. Actually, Lindsay shared with me like a year ago and I, they're always at the top of my feed. I'm obsessed with these guys. They're so good. Yeah. Vanessa and Xander Marin. Shout out. Yes. Killing it out there. Um, they. scheduling sex because it, like I said, helps to make your partner feel like a priority. Um, you can pretend like you're dating and make it super fun and something that I really liked that she recommends with this process is that it doesn't have to be sex that you're scheduling. So when I came to Adrian, yeah, when I came to Adrian with this idea, He was so put off. It's like this. I don't want to schedule sex. That's weird Like it's weird. It creates this expectation. Yeah. Yeah. What if you're not feeling it, you know, like it's important Also to be able to say no in your relationship and be like this this just feels like a really weird way to initiate It's like okay. Well, it's five o'clock on Tuesday So it's like yeah, you know go take our clothes off and stuff like not at all No, no, but something I really liked that she recommends is that It doesn't have to be like sex specifically that you're scheduling. It can be any kind of physical intimacy, something that's going to bring you closer physically. So it could be massages, it could be like a certain amount of time of kissing and you can even make it like, don't take yourself seriously here. Like play around with your partner, make it playful, make it fun. Joke about it. It'll feel so much more approachable. Yeah. Um, yeah. So Vanessa said she recommends coming up with like a bare minimum activity that you can agree on beforehand so that when that time comes, you're like, okay, well at least we can kiss for like, you know, 30 seconds or we can exchange massages for like three minutes each. It doesn't have to be anything like huge. It doesn't have to take up a ton of your time. Yeah. And then, you know, like once you get into that, into the role of that, like maybe. Maybe one thing leads to another, and suddenly you're having just that little bit more sex

lindsay: 40:55

than you were before. It totally might lead on. It might lead. It might lead on to like more. Yeah. Lead on to more than just like that three minute like hand massage. Absolutely. It sets,

Jordan: 41:08

it gives, it gives you both the invitation and the space. Yes. To let it become something more. Yes. If you want it to be in that moment, because that's what we're not getting as parents is that opportunity and that little bit of space and that's what we had at the beginning of our relationships. Oh, it's what we had in spades. We had so much time for our partners, you know, like without a kid running around meals to try and come up with without groceries to go and buy and like a house to maintain. Yeah, that

lindsay: 41:37

was, it's almost like the piece of the pie. That was the piece of the pie. Yeah. Before kids was like, there was a big piece there, like your partner. Yeah. And then it literally got the, when the moment you had a child, that child took over that big piece of the pie. Yup.

Jordan: 41:51

Absolutely. The kid is like, is the pie.

lindsay: 41:56

Everything revolves around the kid. And

Jordan: 41:58

there's, I love my baby. There is nothing, nothing that is less, uh, sexually intriguing than being around a screaming kid all day. Like. Well, I mean, that's probably a good thing that we're programmed that way, but it's not great for the sex life. So my hot take this week is if you want to be showing your partner that you prioritize, you know, that your sexual or physical intimacy is important to you, just try scheduling sex. Just try it.

lindsay: 42:33

See what happens. Give it a shot. Yeah. One, however many times you want to try it. I was about to say once a week, but no, it doesn't, that's what works for us. Like, yeah, that's great. I mean, there's also like the weekends that we've been home and like, you know, there's nap time, obviously. Sure. Yeah.

Jordan: 42:52

Fingers crossed for nap time. Yeah. Or all the reasons. Not just for sex. Yeah. Um, yes. So yeah. And that's another thing to keep in mind. Your partner, you and your partner may not have like this, You may not want the same amount of sex and that's okay. I think this is a season to be absolutely like Um, give yourself so much grace and give your partner so much grace and just try to meet in the middle as much as you can. I think any amount of effort and communication around this is going to make a difference. If you want to have sex once a month or once every three months or once a day, if you're absolutely wild and that's your thing, go for it. I love that for you. Um, so yeah, try and figure out what will really work for you and your partner. Make it a bare minimum thing and pop it in that calendar. Mm hmm. Yeah. Go for it. Go for it. All right. So that's, that's my whole spiel for this week. Yeah. I hope it works for you. Fun new topic.

lindsay: 43:48

Yeah.

Jordan: 43:48

Yeah, yeah. Fun new topic. All right. Well, we're getting kind of pushing the time here. Yeah. So we should start to get wrapping up. Yes. So, yeah.

lindsay: 43:56

Take it. Yeah. We're going to recommend something crazy and fun, random, every single Or boring. Yeah. If you're like, uh, I don't want anything to do with that product. Then you just end your episode early. So, yeah. Each episode, something random, something crazy, something fun that we're doing at home. Reading,

Jordan: 44:17

watching, listening to, playing with, observing.

lindsay: 44:22

something that is popular out there in the mom world or parent world. I would, I'll just reiterate parent world. Yes. There's some families that don't have mamas. Yeah. And that's okay. so something out there that's crazy in the parent world right now, everybody's talking about it.

Jordan: 44:37

Everybody. You guys, you've been talking about this. I know you've been talking about this.

lindsay: 44:43

You can't stop. Even if you're not a parent. You've probably

Jordan: 44:47

been talking about this. All the kids. We're talking about this.

lindsay: 44:53

Well I know my daughter would be because she's obsessed with me using it. We have the Bissell Crosswave Pepro All In One Wet Dry Vacuum Cleaner and Mop. Woo!

Jordan: 45:07

Do you know what that is? I, okay, I've seen it. Lindsay sent me a one minute video. A full minute video of her using this vacuum on her floor.

lindsay: 45:19

A mom minute is a long time. Yeah, this thing is a mop vacuum. Wrap your heads around that, how awesome that is. You don't have to vacuum and then like mop the floors later, but this thing does it all at once. And it's incredible. All the moms are freaking out on social media about this. I know I need it. I have a dog. I have a child. There's leaves everywhere in my house. It's

Jordan: 45:44

raining today. It's raining today. The floors are muddy.

lindsay: 45:46

Yeah. It's insane. This thing is awesome hard surface floors or a rug, where you can have, yeah, it literally, I'm sure it works on carpet, I don't know, we don't have carpet, we just have rugs and hard, hard floors in our home. You put the cleaning solution in there. I personally use vinegar and dish soap and water because I don't like the smell of the harsh chemicals. Oh, I don't know. That's my personal preference, but put it in and you hit go and this thing literally like shoots out the cleanings of stuff and vacuums at the same time and it's just incredible and then it's easier than sweeping. Yes,

Jordan: 46:23

it's like easier than sweeping the floor.

lindsay: 46:25

Yeah, yeah. And I don't have to get on the floor and like mop up anything. I, it just does it. And then it's self cleans at the end. Best part. Yeah. Best part is you hook it up to this little like station, you pour hot water in the station, you hit the on button and it vacuums up the hot water and cleans the whole fucking thing. It's insane. I absolutely love using it. I use it two to three times a week.

Jordan: 46:50

Yeah, and your floors look incredible. Yeah. They're so

lindsay: 46:53

shiny. Yeah, I mean, and it goes so fast. It's I it's literally under 15 minutes to do my whole house. Yeah, that's how fast it is because I'm getting it all done at once. Yeah,

Jordan: 47:04

think of all the time you could save out there parents.

lindsay: 47:07

It's worth every dollar. It's spendy out there. I think, you know, there's obviously like Black Friday or their sales all the time, but It's worth every dollar. Yeah, for

Jordan: 47:16

sure. I'll have to check it out. Yeah. I keep telling her to bring it over. I think she's, oh yeah, I should. Yeah,

lindsay: 47:21

you should. I'll bring it over next time. But you can do it.

Jordan: 47:24

Check it out. Test it on the carpet. Yes. Well, yes. Uh, hang tight. We'll get back to you on the carpet. Yeah. Just sit there on the edge of your seat till.

lindsay: 47:34

Can't wait to hear about the wet dry vacuum

Jordan: 47:37

from Bissell. Awesome. Well, that's it everybody. Yeah. That's all we've got for you today. I hope you enjoyed hearing about sex and DMR, two very disparate topics. When you're a mom, you got to go from one thing to the next. So there you go.

lindsay: 47:51

Random is awesome. Keep it random. We have kids. We have

Jordan: 47:56

kids. And that's us. Peace out. Bye.

lindsay: 47:58

Bye.